S&P Emini Journals? why old fashion way?

Discussion in 'Journals' started by PKJR, Oct 17, 2003.

  1. PKJR


    why anyone here is not providing his or her journal in a form of a transaction list based on executed trades ..some thing like journal found on http://www.tradingiq.com ?
    or here

    I think you can learn a lot from actually following trades this way..

    also reviewing and discussing those trades is much easier whether you trade one contract or 50 I think that should be a standard here...otherwise, I just do not know how it can be beneficial to others..
  2. My journal has exact transaction times; prices, and size for every trade. The info is taken directly from my trading platform.

  3. If a person posts prints, they are not easily understood here.

    Most people keep trading logs, I know I do. Backing a print with a trading log or description seems like a great opportunity as a combination for studying.

    I use so much short hand I like to also post slugs of info that let people know the context. Attached is such acommon pattern that has four variations.

    The general result is that people throw in flaming, lurkers comments and really bash the effort. I attached one of my trading backup sheets for a major disruptive pattern. The pattern can be turned to the good (two profiable trades instead of sitting through it and being right in the same place).

    There's not much possibility for people to learn from the trading records of others as you say.
  4. First, you have to consider the reason why the journal keeper is even writing...many are doing it just to hold themselves accountable and they dont care what they prove to others....

    Among those who are trying to prove something...if they post account snapshots, they get the flame: We dont care about your accounts, where is your method? If they post a method, they get the flame: Ok, that's great, but can you back it up with posted account shots?

    One other thought occurs to me...on that website...where they are selling a system/mentoring/course whatever, posted snapshots of an account log are worthless because, they could simply have 2 accounts, they take a long in one and a short in the other at the same time, then post whichever account makes them money to "prove" their system and get your cash. The website seemed poorly done to me overall, the account shots were hardly verifiable....If you're going to post real result pictures, get a reputable audit firm to monitor you, that is if you are selling 1200.00 software etc etc. If people are actually using TrendIQ and having lots of stellar results with it, then kudos and I apologize for suspecting them as just more shills duping traders out of capital.

  5. PKJR


    ok..so why do it then?

    I was away from ET lately , got some reply to old thread dating back almost ages, found "journals" section and I guess I was looking for something else in those Journals..I have been doing trading for a long time and I can look at executions look at the chart and I know what trader was trying to do..

    ..but posting like :
    S @ XXXX
    C @ XXXX

    not sure about educational value as you can't really verify trader's intention or find the trade on the chart ...what is keeping all those traders from posting real trades from the execution screen with some comments ..I have no idea.. perhas, is it an issue of accountability to yourself ? I think that's what the Journals are all about ..

    as to the website I can't comment I guess this is one of those things that if someone makes money than u have to have a duplicate account...oh well ..next..
  6. Everybody...PKJR, Fast_Trader, Grob109, Eminence Front...has made some interesting and valid points...

    I myself view trade journals as if they are books with authors...

    The author has something to say...for whatever reason.

    Reality is this...there are traders at ET that has a favorite trade journal for a different reason than someone another trader that enjoys another trade journal for a different reason.

    It will be impossible to try to get all those that post trade journals to do it in a common format or in any kind of way that everybody is happy or satisfied.

    Back to an earlier point...authors of the trade journals have different reasons for starting such...

    To prove something to individuals they've been debating with at ET in the open forum, to prove something to individuals they've been debating with at ET via private message, to prove a method doesn't work via paper trades, to educate traders (sharing) on a particular method, to seek advice or feedback about their trade methodology, to hold themselves accountable et cetera...

    Therefore, based on so many different reasons why trade journals are started...

    There's isn't a format that's size fits all.

    Here are examples to explain my point...

    Readers 1: Enjoys journals that have verifiable information (screen shots of trading records or realtime posted trades)

    Readers 2: Enjoys journals that explore the psychological aspects of trading

    Readers 3: Enjoys journals that provides in-depth info about the method so that they can apply the method

    Readers 4: Enjoys journals with annotated charts so they can see what the trader was seeing (theirs a huge flaw here if not done right).

    and so many other types of readers I've failed to mentioned.

    When I first came to ET...I was more like Reader 4.

    I'm now more like Reader 2.

    Thus, I really don't need to see charts especially since I have a charting program of my own.

    I prefer to know how the trader felt from start to finish in each trade, what events in their personal life are affecting their trading, what events in the market throughout the trading day affected their trades.

    Reason why I enjoyed AfterBurner's trade journal so much because he wrote about some of the above to satisfied me as Reader 2.

    Therefore, I learned a lot from AfterBurner's journal while at the same time I've gotten messages from other traders that say it was a worthless journal because he didn't educate them about Tape Reading after mentioning Tape Reading so often.

    From the above...I think your understanding what I'm explaining.

    Speaking of charts...when Grob109 said the following...it's so true.

    For example...lets say your a reader that needs a posted chart to understand what the author is saying...

    lets say your an author that's got something to say or show...

    Which of the below charts and/or info is more helpful???

    Trade Journal 1:

    Short ES 10 contracts @ 976.25 at 3:07
    Cover all 10 contracts @ 973.50 at 3:10

    Trade Journal 2:

    Short ES 10 contracts @ 976.25 at 3:07
    Cover all 10 contracts @ 973.50 at 3:10

    "I saw a bearish tweezer top in the counter-thrust and waited for the tape to point downwards to get short. I then covered when the CCI started going northwards and the tape started showing more buyers than sellers"

    Trade Journal 3:

    Short ES 10 contracts @ 976.25 at 3:07
    Cover all 10 contracts @ 973.50 at 3:10

    "I missed most of the morning session because of important phone calls with the real estate agent that got me so stressed out that I missed a Spike & Ledge failure (Short signal) @ 1:15pm est. I went for a long walk to relax and get my mind off the markets and about buying a house. When I returned I got lucky and saw how weak the MACD was (short signal) during that counter-thrust"

    Trade Journal 4:

    Short entry @ 976.25 via 5min chart
    Cover @ 973.50 via 1min chart

    Trade Journal 5:

    Short @ 976.25 @ 3:07:05pm est
    Cover @ 973.50 @ 3:10:05pm est

    Loses: 0
    P/L Points: 2.75 per contract
    P/L $ Profits: $1,375

    Chart 1:


    Your normal annotated trade journal chart.

    Chart 2 and 3:


    Chart 2 is a 5min chart that represents a particular second (tick) in the development of that 5min interval...the time of the actual trade entry.


    Chart 3 is a 1min chart that represents a particular second (tick) in the development of that 1min interval...the time of the actual trade exit.

    I used snurl.com to reduce long url links thanks to a tip by a trader that goes by the name m618.

    Both recorded and edited in Camtasia Studio and then in Xnview...


    Trade journals are difficult to maintain, their time consuming, they can be stressful depending upon the type of interaction within the journal with other traders, they can be educational, they can be a means to vent...

    requiring a lot of energy to maintain.

    The above are some main reason(s) why most trade journals don't last beyond a few months.

    Therefore, I no longer expect someone to post their journal a certain to way to make me happy nor do I expect a size fits all format.

    Traders (authors) should post their trade journal in a way that it makes them happy and accomplishes whatever goals they may have via that journal...

    if its beneficial to one trader and not to another or beneficial only for the trade journal author...

    isn't that's what it should be about?

    One size doesn't fit all.

    Hopefully the above answers PKJR questions along with adding to what Grob109 was saying about the difficulties in charts explaining something...

    simply showing an overall general chart may not be as educational or informative as many traders think.

    Further my comments about charts...unless your recording every tick by tick of any particular chart interval (1min, 3min, 5min, 15min et cetera)...

    your going to have an extremely difficult time understanding what that trader was doing simply via looking at his/her trade execution times along with an after fact chart that shows complete chart intervals.

    Something else...the above charts I've posted were edited out of a bigger chart because the bigger chart contains confidential information I don't want another trader to see because its naive to assume that every person viewing confidential information is not going to misuse or illegally use that info.

    Last of all...anybody that wants traders to post their trade journals a particular way...

    Should post their own trade journal for scrutiny and to lead by example...here or anywhere else.


    P.S. Another long winded post but hopefully one of the links above is useful to somebody.