S E R I O U S Tea party discussion, Republican implosion.

achilles28 · Sep 16, 2010

Quote from KINGOFSHORTS:

This is for a serious discussion only.

Looks like 8 years of a BIG! government and BIG spending republican party has pretty much left the GOP in turmoil. The Republican party used to represent SMALL government and cutting spending.

What happened to Paygo?
Bush pushed through Medicare plan D which was a huge expense.
Bush got us into TWO very expensive wars
Bush signed anything that came across his desk.
And of course Government is much bigger after Bush left, with Obama continuing the progress.

The problem with the Republicans is they are no longer what was supposed to be Republicans and now voters have no trust in what the GOP represents.

This opens up the door to the Tea Party.
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There is NO difference between mainstream Republicans and Democrats.

Both are Pro War.

Both are Big Government.

Both are Anti-Constitution.

Both are Huge Spenders.

Both let Special Interests fuck Americans up the ass. Day-in, day-out.

Politicians are a complete joke. A waste of space. Utter douche bags.

Things will not be "okay" after running up the debt to 130% GDP.

Does anyone have a fucking clue? Think Greece with no IMF/ECB bailout. How does a nice 25% GDP "haircut" sound, motherfucker??

The time for change was 15 years ago.

Now? It's simply too late. Libertarian politics made incredible strides. But nothing can stop the mother of all shit storms that's about to descend upon America. And who brought us here? The motherfuckering douchebags in Congress and Senate who year-after-year voted for more pork, bigger public pensions, higher deficits, more war, more outsourcing, more kickbacks and bailouts to their motherfucking friends. That's who. One big gangrape of the taxpayer. Except the average American was so fucking gullible, they believed all their bullshit on FOX and CNN. Yea, well now Americans are waking up. They know America is going down the shittter hard and they're about to pay for it.... right up the ass. All we can do now is get every anti-establishment Libertarian in office, expose the endemic corruption, and brace ourselves. The economy is done, folks. Kiss your fat fucking pensions, shitty mcmansion and 200-week unemployment checks goodbye. In about 3-4 years, things will get out of hand... Enjoy your Big Brother utopia then. All you motherfuckers who voted Democrat and Republican year-after-year, you own a lot of blame...

Hey, fuck it. It was good while it lasted, right? I hope a lot of you douches are around to witness the fruits of your own stupidity. When it all comes down on your fucking head. Grapes of wrath.

achilles28 · Sep 16, 2010

Quote from Hello:

Is your goal on this site to make yourself look at stupid as you possibly can? Even though you suck at trying to string together conspiracy theories i will give you credit, you are pretty good at making yourself look stupid.

I live in the states you retarded truther waste of skin, i was born and lived in toronto until the age of 22, perhaps you should learn to read before spouting your mouth off.

It doesnt surprise me though that someone as misguided and idiotic as you who believes we attacked our own people in 9/11 would be stupid enough make yet another error in reading.

Or Is this another one of your gotcha conspiracy theories? Maybe i am actuallly a false flag CIA agent who has been sent here to debunk your theories and misguide the "truth" you are exposing on ET about 9/11.
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Shut the fuck up. Seriously. You're a douche bag.

denner · Sep 16, 2010

Quote from Hello:

Is your goal on this site to make yourself look at stupid as you possibly can? Even though you suck at trying to string together conspiracy theories i will give you credit, you are pretty good at making yourself look stupid.

I live in the states you retarded truther waste of skin, i was born and lived in toronto until the age of 22, perhaps you should learn to read before spouting your mouth off.

It doesnt surprise me though that someone as misguided and idiotic as you who believes we attacked our own people in 9/11 would be stupid enough make yet another error in reading.

Or Is this another one of your gotcha conspiracy theories? Maybe i am actuallly a false flag CIA agent who has been sent here to debunk your theories and misguide the "truth" you are exposing on ET about 9/11.
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Anybody who still uses the "conspiracy theory" bullshit as a retort is an idiot of the highest order. It's a remarkably convenient way of ignoring any conflicting information and re-shaping the evidence to support a pre-determined conclusion.

Why waste time with an asshole like yourself who is still stuck in the mud 10 years after the fact.

phenomena · Sep 16, 2010

I believe there's another active thread for this 9/11 conspiracy theory mud slinging fest. Can you please take it there? This thread isn't about 9/11. Thanks.

Hello · Sep 16, 2010

I agree with everything which has been stated here, and also think we should drop the capital gains tax to zero, to encourage foreign investment in our economy.

In terms of switching from income tax to sales tax, it would have to be somewhat of a drawn out process, cause if we were to do it overnight we could inadvertantly send the economy spiralling downward, as it would slow down the consumer for the first little bit.

The same could be said for dropping capital gains tax to zero, except less so then switching to straight sales tax, the economy is a delicate balance, and if you do it to quickly it could have the inverse effect as it encourages a hoard of people to save all at once. Obviously encouraging saving is the end goal of both scenarios, and that is where we want to be in the end, but quite frankly i think we would totally collapse our economy over night if we instantly started saving the way the chinese do.

The best thing we can do instantly is start drastically cutting income taxes.

Quote from phenomena:

Yes, we are small pro government. Yes, we have been kicking ass and taking names since we began, now with roughly 1/3 of the usa behind us after only a few years of existence. Yes, the neocons are attempting to hijack our movement and rebrand themselves so as to avoid being associated with the republican debacle of the last decade. The Angle/Palin segment of the Tea Party, which is a minorty, represents this effort. We are trying to gut them out, while simultaneously milking them for money and votes. After we are the distinct majority, they'll vote for our small government candidates anyways, because their alternative will be left wing. We are a grass roots movement, and positions on specific issues vary from group to group. However, the common theme is limited government, and a desire to reduce the common size and scope of government.

We generally favor lower, and flatter taxes. Many favor a move toward more consumption based taxation. We are nearly all proponents of Laissez Faire economic policies. Favoring as little government intervention as possible. Government participation, if it is to occur, should be minimal and temporary. We have the fundamental belief that allowing people to keep more of what they earn increases overall size of the pie, by incentivizing people to earn. Laissez faire policies create more wealth than interventionist policies by a large multiple. Nearly every emperical scenario supports this assertion. Not implimenting Laissez Faire policy comes at the high price of stiffled innovation, less efficiency, and the creation of less wealth overall. We have seen how Western Europe now has more millionaires per capita than the United States does. We believe this has very much to do with our parasitic taxation. For example, our corporate taxes are virtually the highest in the developed world. Also our "capital gains" tax, which discourages investment. If we are to reinstate policies of growth and innovation, these punative tax measures which punish investment(the fuel of innovation) must cease. (Then again, many of our opponents see the fact that Western Europe has more millionaires than we do as a sign of "progress" on our part)

We want wasteful beauracracies to be terminated, as they are exceptionally burdensome on the taxpayers and rarely serve their stated purpose. For example the Dept of Education, which was created in 1979. Since then our students' scores have gone down the toilet compared to other developed nations. Before 1979, states each had their own dept of education, and states competed for the highest scores on standardized tests, and for high graduation rates. The quality of education was often a big draw for companies considering a certain location to set up operations etc. Now, thanks to the dept of education, and no child left behind, all public schools now pretty much suck equally. There are numerous examples of wasteful and ineffective federal departments which serve little purpose other than to provide jobs for beaurocrats, and to siphon out of the federal trough. I could go on all night, but I just offered one example. You guys would be shocked at some of the "departments" that exist, what their "duties" are, and their corresponding budgets. We are opposed to big government, interventionist endeavors such as the multi billion dollar, multi decade "war on drugs", which served as a convenient scapegoat to rub one off on constitutional rights, not to mention the billions it's tagged on to the correctional and judicial budgets.

We believe that the government has no right in our private or personal lives. We are anti patriot act. Most of us see how the divorce rate skyrocketed after the establisment and growth of "family courts", and would like to remove the state from the convention of marriage altogether. Hence rendering gay marriage a non issue. Most tea party members defer to the fact that the government should have no business in our personal affairs on the gay issue. Because of this, there is now actually some tea party support from the gay community. We have the belief that what consenting adults do with each other is no business of the state. We think it's a tragedy that our "land of the free" now imprisions a higher % of their own population than any other nation in the world. As you can see, we are a diverse group of people and represent a diverse group of beliefs and values, who have all been drawn together under the common desire to have the government out of our lives, and out of our finances.

We overwhelmingly favor a non interventionist foreign policy. The majority of us were anti iraq war. Most of us were pro afghanistan invasion(they were supporting and harboring the guys who attacked us), but disapprove of our presence there now, nearly a decade later. It's well past time we were gone. We don't believe in policies of "nation building", and interventionist plans. You will find some variablity here, but most of us are fine with having allied nations, but tend to dislike the dispersal of financial foreign aid. We are strong believers in free trade, and oppose protectionist policies. We are overwhelmingly pro LEGAL immigration, and anti illegal immigration. We are overwhelmingly anti amnesty, pro border security. We believe America has a right to select an immigration policy which is in the interest of America. This means securing our borders, and selecting individually, case by case, who will allowed to immigrate.

Despite the propaganda, we are not "pro big business", in fact, we believe that the number one argument against big government is that industrialists always come take it over. If government weren't so disproportionately bloated and powerful, then buying it out would cease to be a lucrative endeavor. Small government is the best way to protect the public from predatory corporations. If corporate buyouts of congress and back room deals btwn politicos and companies ceased to occur, this would create the most free and fair environment for competitive industry. We know that small and midsized businesses have always been the backbone of our economic engine, and that they are now becoming an endangered species. We know that the ability of large corporations to buy out government officials or courts has always been the source of their unfair advantages over other businesses.

We know that the nature of power is to corrupt, and that there is no perfect human. Even if you find an uncorruptable person, or an entire administration ( if such a thing existed), then what about when they were replaced? Common sense denotes that the best way of keeping corruption out of government, is to limit the size and scope of government.

We are overwhelmingly pro 2nd amendement, and mostly pro choice. Again on abortion, most of us defer to the fact that the state has no business in our affairs. Some support the deferral of the abortion issue to individual states. On the second ammendment we defer to our constitution, and to how remarkably safe other developed nations with desirable gun policies are (switzerland, israel) .The largest point of ambivilance within the Tea Party is probably the death penalty. It seems to me like were split pretty close down the middle on that one.

Last but certainly not least, THERE IS NO RACIAL COMPONENT TO OUR PLATFORM WHATSOEVER. We are not racists, stated or implied. Racial views are not a part of our movement. Never have been, never will be. In fact we are highly opposed to any racially based policy whatsoever. We have eleminated any and every element of racism in our movement as soon as we've identified it and will continue to do so. Furthermore we have minority leadership, and lots of minority support. There are numerous black tea party supporters, and one of our strongest leaders (Lt. Col. Allen West) is a black man. And of course, our historical founder Crispus Attucks, who effectively started the American Revolution, was also a black man. We have centuries of minority support and leadership, since long before it was politically en vogue.

I hope I have answered some basic questions regarding what our movement is about. Please feel free to let me know if I can answer any other questions.
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Mercor · Sep 16, 2010

The Tea party is an extension of the Ross Perot movement. All about the budget.

hermit · Sep 16, 2010

Quote from phenomena:

being associated with the republican debacle of the last decade. The Angle/Palin segment of the Tea Party, which is a minorty, represents this effort.
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A minority lol!

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phenomena · Sep 16, 2010

Absolutely not. Ross Perot and the Tea Party are polar opposites on many key issues.

While we agree on some issues with Perot's platform, we're fundamentally opposite on others.

"declared policies as balancing the federal budget, firm pro-choice stance, expansion of the war on drugs, ending outsourcing of jobs, opposition to gun control, belief in protectionism on trade, advocating the Environmental Protection Agency and enacting electronic direct democracy via "electronic town halls,"

We are highly anti drug war, much less drug war expansion. We are anti protectionist and believe in free markets. Most of us feel that the EPA is yet another beauracracy which fundamentally does not serve it's purpose, and is by and large an inefficient tax payer parasite.

About all we agree on is budget balancing and opposition to gun control. Although I have heard talk of e-democracy framework in libertarian circles. That being said, we disagree with as much of the Perot platform as we agree with, if not more.

Quote from Mercor:

The Tea party is an extension of the Ross Perot movement. All about the budget.
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phenomena · Sep 16, 2010

Yes, according to your left wing propagandists who are shitting in their panties fearful of tea party victories,

http://americanvaluesnetwork.org/20...-pro-choice-and-pro-gay-knowing-that-matters/

and according to me, an active tea party supporter.

It is simply the element which you guys choose to showcase, in your fearful desperation of the inevitable tea bagging you're about to face.. ROFL!!!

Showcasing this element is simply part of operation "crash the tea party". And unfortunately for you, it's not working too well... Get ready, bags away!!! ROFL!!!

Quote from hermit:

A minority lol!

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hermit · Sep 16, 2010

Quote from phenomena:

Yes, according to your left wing propagandists who are shitting in their panties fearful of tea party victories,

http://americanvaluesnetwork.org/20...-pro-choice-and-pro-gay-knowing-that-matters/

and according to me, an active tea party supporter.

It is simply the element which you guys choose to showcase, in your fearful desperation of the inevitable tea bagging you're about to face.. ROFL!!!

Showcasing this element is simply part of operation "crash the tea party". And unfortunately for you, it's not working too well... Get ready, bags away!!! ROFL!!!
More...

Yup, they are so afraid of all the great material the teabaggers are providing Dems for campaign ads, LOL!!

Sample - Do you oppose abortion in case of incest rape victim
Answer - Yup, Let the baby be put up for adoption!

This is something to be feared ROFL!