big dave - since you are now backed into a corner and refusing to explain away the bad data. But you are the must informed person who is pro global warming I know. Why don't you put forth your 5 best arguments for man made global warming and cite your sources. Then also tell me how you know this global warming is bad for us. I say this sincerely as a former surfer who cares about the environment and knows the oceans are a polluted fished out mess. But who also has not scene one piece of evidence that is not countered by other scientfic evidence. I was very impressed with State of fear.... from wikipedia and I think he hit the nail on the head when he warned that science has been politicized. from wikipedia... Crichton included a statement of his views on global climate change as an afterword. In the "Author's message", Crichton states that the cause, extent, and threat of climate change is largely unknown and unknowable. He finishes by endorsing the management of wilderness and the continuation of research into all aspects of the Earth's environment. In Appendix I, Crichton warns both sides of the global warming debate against the politicization of science. Here he provides two examples of the disastrous combination of pseudo-science and politics: the early 20th-century ideas of eugenics (which he directly cites as one of the theories that allowed for the Holocaust) and Lysenkoism. This appendix is followed by a bibliography of 172 books and journal articles that Crichton presents "...to assist those readers who would like to review my thinking and arrive at their own conclusions." (State of Fear, pp, 583).
I used to live here. http://www.mindfully.org/Air/2006/Vanishing-Glaciers1sep06.htm Edit: sorry, Jem, just noticed that you did say "man made".
My position is that there is no hidden or surreptitiously thrown out data. You haven't even made an attempt to tell us any differently. So no, I'm not backed into a corner at all. I'm standing in front of you, waiting for you to make a specific allegation. You can't. I'll give one: the Keeling Curve + isotopes. There, that's it. Argument over. You can't argue the increase in temperatures, and you can't argue that the CO2 causing this isn't man-made because of the isotope ratios. Flooding, storm surges, temperature change. The Keeling curve has never been countered by anything, nor have isotope measurements. In fact, the arguments are so overwhelming for man-made climate change that the only thing left that "counters" it is fairly easily disproved and discredited. As for Crichton, he's an author not a climatologist. Cite climatologists.
My opinion is that desertification is the worst of them. But perhaps there will be more rain elsewhere.
well he did go to harvard med school and had a science degree undergrad from harvard and finished top of his class. He also laid out a lot of the research in the book and in the back of the book. he convinced me that the data is inconclusive. but I will look up your argument.
dave showing me that someone measured an increase in co2 near an active volcano - is not proof of man made global warming - I doubt it even constitutes proof of an increase in co2 levels. But lets say I accept that the level of CO2 is moving up pretty rapidly. http://www.aip.org/history/climate/co2.htm I looks arguable that temperature rise precedes co2 increase -- (ice cores seem to show that relationship) I accept that there may be a feed back loop exacerbated by man made activity. However, it sure looks like a rise in temperature and CO2 also happen without man's input --- large factors being the earth's orbit around the sun and volcanos. by the way Is that keeling curve really your best argument for proof of man made global warming. how do you prove the earth would not be warming up on its own right now?
by the way your position - is in direct opposition the the article cited on this thread - and the emails from the top climate scientists.
And all the bullshit lying "scientists" are from bullshit far leftist schools and want political control through environmental issues... they are getting their lies shoved right in their face..