Russia & Ukraine

Discussion in 'Politics' started by UsualName, Jan 18, 2022.

  1. Also known as the bill the Ukrainians supported.

    I see the bloviating you want to unload though. Dem bill this, dem bill that.

    The point remains. Biden could not move fast enough to kill keystone even though Americans and Canadians wanted it. But also could not move fast enough to support Nordstream because Putin and Angela wanted it even though the EU opposed it.

    In the end, Putin will have his pipeline. And Americans will have higher prices and be going back to OPEC with our begging bowls. It's what Jimmy Biden does. But he is flagging and needs a victory so if he takes a dump on the front lawn of the white house you and Psaki will frame it as a victory. Best dump every. Donald Trump never did a dump that big, blah, blah, blah.
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2022
    #31     Jan 18, 2022
  2. #32     Jan 18, 2022
  3. Tony Stark

    Tony Stark

    Said Bill Barr.And that was about collusion,not the fact that Russia helped Trump.
    #33     Jan 18, 2022
  4. vanzandt


    I wrote about this over a month ago when this simple little fact had not crossed anyone's minds. Except maybe Putin and his generals. I even wrote it in bold and blue, with a website to check. :sneaky:

    - General VZ
    #34     Jan 18, 2022
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  5. UsualName


    So tell me what is the gain from imposing sanctions on the pipeline right now? What good is putting sanctions on a nonfunctional pipeline in the middle of Russia posturing/lead up to attack Ukraine? How does this help?
    #35     Jan 18, 2022
  6. An argument can be made that a sanction could prevent use, as the west does not want Putin to begin operating a high revenue generating pipeline and continueing to make the EU more dependent on Russian energy. But Biden already sided with Merkel against the EU so you are asking me "now what."

    But i don't want to or feel the need to pretty that up. You are suggesting that some things are too far along to unscramble the egg, and I am agreeing that that is how biden rolls and do not have an answer to the "now whats" related to Ukraine, AFG fiascos, fentynal/sp epidemic, street crime, the border, lack of testing, and therapeutics etc. Nope. Homey not going to play that game. That is and will be the story of the Biden administration. "What good does it do now after Joe already did or allowed xyx?" Yup. Save that question and recycle it every week for a new disaster.

    Angela out maneuvered Biden as much as Putin did on this one. Her soviet upbringing shows at times.

    I see the UK and the Canadians sending some token forces into the Ukraine but I am not even remotely advocating that for the U.S. We have a dysfunctional commander in chief and vice president and the leading military clowns - Milley, Austin, etc are just disasters. You dont want American troops under their command or on the move.

    On the other hand, although Biden is not necessarily the only player and some things that should have been resisted or not supported may still end out happening or being threatened by the germans and the other europeans which could be good. In other words, the europeans and the rest of the world may begin to realize that they are on their own and need to step up and not be dependent on Biden State Department dildos or Biden himself.

    Such a thing could happen with the Germans, now that Angela is gone. And of course if something ballsy does happen and has an impact, Joe will take credit for it. Even if he was been part of the problem.

    Germany Signals It Could Take This Step If Russia Invades Ukraine
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2022
    #36     Jan 18, 2022
  7. UsualName


    Just so we are clear, we are talking about a pipeline that was built while Donald Trump was President, right? A pipeline Trump couldn’t get stopped using “back room channels” and he lashed out because of saying Germany is totally controlled by Russia or some nonsense. That pipeline?

    This is a pipeline Trump couldn’t stop. This is a pipeline that was 99% built when Biden took office.

    I don’t know what to say to you with this. It doesn’t make sense to sanction a nonfictional already built pipeline. I can see it as a sanctions package after the attack but the time to stop it has long since passed.
    #37     Jan 18, 2022
  8. Trump opposed the pipeline but the Americans lack authority to stop it other than through the use of American presidential influence and dealmaking. Nevertheless Trump used his influence in one direction, and Biden in the other.

    Despite your framing the history of it to meet your jaundiced objectives, Trump had worked agreements with Germany to export American LNG gas and offer all sorts of incentives related to the use of old pipeline etc. So he did bring it to the point of Ukraine having the understanding that the pipeline operation would not happen. Not only that, the Biden administration in the earliest days picked up with the same policy but then they suddenly shifted positions and started arguing that it was already a fait accompli and the pipeline was going to be made operational. Look for the small signs: The about-face famously caused the President of the Ukraine to say that BIDEN knifed him in the back. NOT TRUMP. Sound familiar? You know like when the French, our oldest allies, accused Biden of knifing them in the back with his handling of the sub deal.
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2022
    #38     Jan 18, 2022
  9. UsualName


    So we are getting closer to the truth now. Good.

    I think you might be mistaken the knifed Ukraine in the back comment. I’m pretty sure the French said that about the sub deal with the Australians.

    Anyhow, this all for naught. Putin has to make a move before that pipeline becomes operational. If anything the fate of that pipeline is in Putin’s hands. And, yes, the Germans have put this pipeline on the cutting block pending the situation in Ukraine.
    #39     Jan 18, 2022
  10. It was reported that way in multiple articles. I don't know if it was a paraphrase or a direct quote. BUT TAKE THE FRIGGING POINT and stop the sideways crabwalk. They took Biden's position as a surprise about-face and for good reasom.

    Alright enough for me on this.

    In the meantime:

    Initially the Biden administration’s approach was one of continuity, copying the firm line adopted by Trump and urging Europe not to make itself vulnerable to Russian energy blackmail.

    Complaining he had been stabbed in the back – not the first US ally to make this point about Biden – Ukraine president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, said Ukraine had been carved out of the decision making process, something the US contests.
    #40     Jan 18, 2022