Russia & Ukraine

Discussion in 'Politics' started by UsualName, Jan 18, 2022.

  1. terr

    terr

    That's ridiculously wrong. Wanting European NATO members to significantly strengthen their militaries and asking them to up their spending is not in any way "weakening" NATO.
    Of course. Because they didn't want to spend the money on their military, and flirted with Putin and made their economies dependent on Putin's good will. We see the results now.
    Bull. Absolute bull. A naked assertion that is wholly your opinion.
    People for whom Iran going nuclear is an existential threat were completely against the "nuclear deal". I believe them and not you.
     
    #3801     Apr 13, 2022
    Tsing Tao likes this.
  2. Not sure where that leadership is. Nato has come together for one reason and one reason only: because war broke out and they feel threatened and they know that DC will lead from its behind. Now they are lining up to join Nato. Even if true- which it is not- there is nothing worse than being a leader in a war that would not have happened but for the weakness that you/Biden projected and then confirmed in the AFG withdrawal.

    As fully discussed throughout the campaign, to elect Biden is to put down the welcome mat for both Ukraine and Taiwan. Here we are. No doubt Biden will be a "leader" in some crisis with China soon. I would rather have a president who "failed" to be a leader in a war because he failed to enable one.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2022
    #3802     Apr 13, 2022
  3. themickey

    themickey

    Total bs. China has seen how the west have dealt with russia as well as booting them from SWIFT. China and russia never saw that coming.
     
    #3803     Apr 13, 2022
    virtusa and UsualName like this.
  4. UsualName

    UsualName

    Firstly, everything you have said with regard to Trump and Ukraine is your opinion as well. Let’s be clear on that.

    Europe doing business with Putin was discouraged from America as policy. The Europeans had the idea that creating business ties would build cooperation- or at least that is what they have said for as long as I can remember.

    As to their military spending, Trump used it as a bludgeon and it created division, and that appeased Putin because that is what he wanted. John Bolton knew this to be true and he advised Trump on these matters in the White House.

    As you may have noticed the people who worked for Trump are the people yelling the loudest do not trust Trump because he will sell out America - Bolton, Tillerson, etc. The people who are most anti trump are the people who have worked for him.


    I will throw this in here too because you two are sort of in unison. Yes. As I said during the build up to the invasion nothing will wake up the Europeans like invading Russian tanks. Nothing before that was going to move the Europeans. Not Trump, not obama nothing. It was always going to be Putin. That is true.

    But Biden is doing a good job keeping the alliance rowing in relatively the same direction. Back filling arms coming from other states and coordinating arms in totality.

    The alliance is our strength. The US going in early on Ukraine would have been ill advised because we would have gone alone. I get this is hard to understand but for NATO to be effective we all have to be moving at once otherwise it becomes a US operation. I’m not saying that was Biden’s thinking but that is core to our strength. We are all moving together in support of Ukraine and we are doing a pretty good job of it.
     
    #3804     Apr 13, 2022
    themickey likes this.
  5. UsualName

    UsualName

    The Russians definitely doubted it. As I said before Putin underestimated the alliance.
     
    #3805     Apr 13, 2022
  6. Yes, it has always been my opinion that Putin would try to take Ukraine if Joe Biden were ever elected.

    Let's watch that together to see if anything like that ever happens.
     
    #3806     Apr 13, 2022
  7. UsualName

    UsualName

    All your saying is that Ukraine was a issue while Trump was president. And guess what, it was always going to happen.

    The good news is your opinion is very changeable. Few weeks back you were saying Putin is a strong leader now you’re calling him a village idiot. Funny how that works.
     
    #3807     Apr 13, 2022
  8. terr

    terr

    The flagship of the Russian fleet in the Black Sea, cruiser "Moskva" was hit by two Ukrainian Neptune missiles. The Russian Ministry of Defense states that because of the "fire" on the cruiser, the ammunition on the ship detonated, the crew was evacuated, and the ship was "seriously damaged". Yeah. "Fire". 510 crew. The ammunition (mostly missiles) on the ship detonated. Wonder how many survived to be evacuated.

    This was the ship that was told to go f*ck itself by the Ukrainian defenders right at the start of the war.

    What makes this especially delicious is the absolute assurance by all the Russians, including their war journalists, that Ukrainian report of the hit on the cruiser was "a fake", designed to distract from their losses everywhere, that the cruiser has amazing defensive systems and was invulnerable.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2022
    #3808     Apr 13, 2022
  9. UsualName

    UsualName

    The Ukrainians were reporting they successfully struck the Russian flagship in the Black Sea called the “Moscow” then Russian media reported there is a fire caused by a ammunition explosion. Lol. It looks like the Ukrainians did not waste any time putting those British anti ship missiles to work.

    CE192719-3518-4501-A586-ABAAD08AE0B6.jpeg
     
    #3809     Apr 13, 2022
  10. terr

    terr

    Ukrainians reported the ship was hit by Neptune anti-ship missiles, produced by Ukraine. Ukraine, pre-war, had a pretty good military industry. In fact, one of the reasons Russian military industry is so screwed right now is that they relied on Ukraine for a lot of parts.

    BTW Turks report they managed to save 54 Russian sailors. The crew was 510.

    There are reports that the ship is now sunk.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2022
    #3810     Apr 13, 2022