Russia & Ukraine

Discussion in 'Politics' started by UsualName, Jan 18, 2022.

  1. SunTrader

    SunTrader

    #2981     Mar 26, 2022
  2. UsualName

    UsualName

    You’re full of suppositions and misdirections. Try to understand you’re trying to sell me Putin is killing Ukrainians to prevent an something that you claim is inevitable otherwise and that supposedly inevitable circumstance is so threatening it warrants an invasion he lied about up until invasion. This is not an issue of mainstream media but an issue of you believing people who are lying AND telling you things that theoretically COULD HAPPEN as things that are inevitable.

    The truth is that when Putin invaded Ukraine the Ukrainians posed no threat to Russia and if anything it was Putin’s aggression in Crimea and east Ukraine that pushed Ukraine closer to the west.

    As to Iraq, one fuck up certainly does not justify a second fuck up. But as has been discussed as nauseum, we in the US have changed leadership multiple times since then whereas the Russians have an authoritarian for life continuously threatening and invading and undermining not only Ukraine but throughout the world.

    You need to check your media because any logical person understands Russia is the villain in this situation.
     
    #2982     Mar 26, 2022
    virtusa, SunTrader and Cuddles like this.
  3. I don't know he seems to be widely reported as a general. Again, I don't know. But both the BBC and the Moscow Times also report him as Lt. General. I don't have any way to have a view beyond that but I know you have sources.

    The article also refers to a colonel who was killed but we are not talking about him.

    We are talking about Yakov Rezantsev right?

    He is alleged to have been a Lt. General. However, wikipedia or one of those wikis reports him as a Lt. General so the way reporting works these days is that once wiki has it wrong, so goes the rest of the media. So there is that factor at play at too- often.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2022
    #2983     Mar 26, 2022
  4. SunTrader

    SunTrader

    The Oligarchs l Al Jazeera Investigations

     
    #2984     Mar 26, 2022
  5. The Putin bootlickers are required to follow the script and use the old Cuba chesnut. That's their go-to. It's a crock though, and I have pasted below a portion of a previous reply from which will give you the proper way of understanding it.

    You are welcome.


    ====================================================
    "The Cuba 1962 analogy/chesnut the Putin apologist are seemingly required to use is complete bullshit and if anyone has a need to understand why then say so and I will give you the proper way of looking at it."

    The Cuban Missile Crisis was a scary,ugly chapter in world history. But it is all relative, eh? One could- especially in times such as now- make the case that it had an overwhelmingly positive outcome. No shooting war between Americans and Russians, and no mushroom clouds. Some might say "well, that's a pretty low bar to meet" but some days that sounds pretty good.

    The Americans backed the Russian down in Cuba, and the Americans were backed down in Turkey and had to pull back missile placements. It could have been worse. One of the ingredients for a successful outcome was that were not working secondary goals. The Americans did not want the missiles in Cuba, and Russia was not saying, "I want the missiles out of Turkey and, oh by the way, I still want to occupy Cuba and make it part of the Soviet Union. Even though various parties can or want to make the case that the Americans suck and /or the Soviet Union sucked, it is a historical fact that we worked it out. We done good. Not as good as never having arrived there but not bad.

    This is the fly in the ointment and the ruse that underpins negotiating/satisfying the Russians. ie. do or say what you will but Putin still wants Ukraine or as much as he can get. You can yield on this or that and he still wants Ukraine. He starts with the idea that he wants Ukraine then fills in the rationale to go with it. Then if you yield doing nothing about the Crimea seizure he just keeps coming. If Zelensky floats the idea of not joining Nato, then Putin ups the game and says you can't be part of EU either. On and on. Bottom line. He wants Ukraine for starters. That's not a Cuban Missile Crisis scenario where there were only a couple moving parts and demans so you can shuffle the deck until you found something worked.

    Now for those who like to rise - as they often do- and say well Putin said this and that and want me to google around and re-educate them, I say unto them: Homey don't play that game. Putin has been at for years and never covered it up regard to denying Ukraine sovereignty and self-stimulating about bagging it. He just thought he could get via the puppet government route but the Ukrainians through that clown out and so they have had to go the direct route of invasion- again. Just listen to what he said in his speech just recently and think about it. From Putin's mouth:

    "Let me emphasize once again that Ukraine for us is not just a neighboring country. It is an integral part of our own history, culture, spiritual space."

    "Ukraine never had a tradition of genuine statehood."

    "From the very first steps they began to build their statehood on the denial of everything that unites us. They tried to distort the consciousness, the historical memory of millions of people, entire generations living in Ukraine."

    "And now grateful descendants have demolished monuments to Lenin in Ukraine. This is what they call decommunisation. Do you want decommunisation? Well, that suits us just fine. But it is unnecessary, as they say, to stop halfway. We are ready to show you what real decommunisation means for Ukraine."

    And so I say again, these attempts to put Cuba in our face as something that entitles Russia to do this or that are bullshit. The resolution of that crisis was a painful success story, and it was only made possible by both parties not have having second, third, and fourth tier goals and decades of butthurt that they expected to resolve. Putin's approach to all of this is a trick process. He wants Ukraine. Say or do what you will and- you got it- he wants Ukraine. And now he has moved on to the No-EU thing as part of his "marry me or I will kill you" demands upon Ukraine.

    Fuck you Russian warship.
     
    #2985     Mar 26, 2022
  6. Buy1Sell2

    Buy1Sell2

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    #2986     Mar 26, 2022
  7. You're overthinking this, especially considering that you are not inside a circle of intel, you're just a dude who thinks his opinion equals fact. Americans have their national interests and Russians have their own, so have the Chinese. I can put my thoughts in one sentence here, USA will not allow Russian military bases to be anywhere near North America, so why should Russia allow American bases to be near Russia? They won't. So you can keep all your comparisons, they are irrelevant. National interest comes first, above everything else.
     
    #2987     Mar 26, 2022
  8. terr

    terr

    Yakov Rezantzev was a 2-star general that was killed by Ukrainians but he's not the one run over by a tank. The man run over by a tank that later died was Colonel Yuri Medvedev.
     
    #2988     Mar 26, 2022
  9. It is not important. They said it's something that they had to do, as peaceful discussions and agreements failed. They will take full control of the situation anyway as NATO will not get involved, then cancel out petrodollar, make an alliance with China, India, build 'Trump's wall' separating all borders from Europe and get on with it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2022
    #2989     Mar 26, 2022


  10. Indeed, the general who was killed is not the colonel who was run over by the tank.

    Thus the article starts the report of the colonel as: "Separately, ...."

    The headline of the article mushed things together a bit.

    But..........my eyes are off on my spreadsheets right now.

    Bottom line. Another general was killed. Yes?
     
    #2990     Mar 26, 2022