Russia & Ukraine

Discussion in 'Politics' started by UsualName, Jan 18, 2022.

  1. Nope. I don't see that at all.

    At no point has Trump suggested any settlement that would not result in Russia holding on to hat it currently occupies. There has been no change on that. The reality is that Putin moved when Biden showed weakness just by being Biden and Trump knows and I know that you cannot unscramble that egg at this point. So that would put leave your aforementioned resources remaining with Putin.

    The area where Trump is probably "evolving" or being influence a bit is in regard to how firmly the U.S. will or will not protect or extract a settlement that protects the remaining portion of Ukraine and limits Putin's gain to what he has already. Versus Trump's previous demeanor/position that he loathes Zelensky so much that he just wants to walk away from the whole conflict. I think the Europeans, his generals serving as advisors, and the Poles in particular are making some progress in convincing Trump that he may have to give Vlad his limited win but he should not be totally played by him and just set him up for his next move.

    Vlad wanted the resources in the east and Biden gave them to him through his inactions and just by being a weak buffoon in the AFG withdrawal. That can't be reversed at this point. Or at least there will be no American investment in trying to do that. If the conflict drags on with no settlement, the Ukrainians may fight for years on that front- as they have since 2014- but the retaking of the donbass and crimea are not part of the American or European goal and everyone- including the Ukrainians- knows that. So all your talk about Trump getting in on the grifting there is out of order.
     
    #18431     Dec 21, 2024
  2. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    I disagree.

    I do not think there will be any peace agreement that does not involve Russia leaving eastern Ukraine. Russia may be able to hang on to Crimea.

    Trump recognizes at this point that the Europeans will not accept any "peace agreement" which involves Russia hanging onto eastern Ukraine (nor will Ukraine).

    Putin does not have much space to negotiate. The Russian military losses are rising leading to discord at home, the Russian economy is continuing its slide, the Russian advanced weapons cannot be replaced due to western sanctions, and the Russian oil & gas infrastructure is being attacked as the revenue to fund his war from sales slides.

    Trump is an opportunist. He is now seeing a golden opportunity for himself and his cronies to make a fortune on Ukraine's re-construction and natural resources (especially those in the east occupied currently by Russia). While making a fortune off the grift, he can come out looking like a hero to the Europeans which will greatly massage his ego.
     
    #18432     Dec 21, 2024
  3. themickey

    themickey

    America is very good with one particular strategy.
    Fight the enemy into their poverty, ie they win by sending their enemy broke.
    I'm assuming this will be Russia's outcome.
     
    #18433     Dec 21, 2024
  4. I will re-evaluate it when the Europeans put troops on the ground there. Otherwise the Russians are not going to be evicted from the 20% that they took when Biden put down the welcome mat. Cannot unscramble that egg at this point.

    Yes, Russia's economy and military will go several notches down in the next year but Putin's survival requires him to hold on to it and he is willing to keep turning the entire economy into a war economy regardless of the hardship. It has always been part of the Russian national psyche to put up with losers as leaders and then be extra proud of themselves for being able to out-suffer everyone else. Kind of stupid but that's their thing and they love it. I mean the oligarchs and the elite dont like it but they and their sons are not going to the front line.

    Poland and France bloviate about putting troops on the ground but I doubt that they will do it, and of course the French can't fight, and I doubt that any country will put troops there for offensive operations such as retaking the donbass. They might retake some of the villages on the frontier where the lines are waivering, but not where the russians have already established russian local governments.
     
    #18434     Dec 21, 2024
  5. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    Russian soldiers refusing their orders.

     
    #18435     Dec 22, 2024
    Nobert likes this.
  6. Nobert

    Nobert

    They can always fly over the river.

     
    #18436     Dec 22, 2024
  7. Snuskpelle

    Snuskpelle

    #18437     Dec 23, 2024
  8. #18438     Dec 23, 2024
  9. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    #18439     Dec 23, 2024
  10. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    Over 3000 of the "imaginary" North Koreans are kaput. "Best Korea" needs to provide more cannon fodder to Putin to replace them.

    This is your reminder that all 10,000 of the original North Koreans are expected to be dead or wounded within 10 weeks.

    NK-3000-gone.jpg
     
    #18440     Dec 23, 2024