Russia & Ukraine

Discussion in 'Politics' started by UsualName, Jan 18, 2022.

  1. UsualName

    UsualName

    Lots and lots of discussion about the appropriateness of these cluster munitions but the truth is as it turns out that’s about what we can spare. And this in the wake of reports indicating the spring offensive isn’t making the gains it expected to date.
     
    #13001     Jul 10, 2023
  2. All of which is a result of Biden's policy of waiting to see how badly Ukraine fails before sending the weapons they need to do the job. Trickle, trickle, trickle.

    The Ukrainians are vastly outnumbered by the Russians and have had to conduct themselves in a cautious way to avoid slaughter. Trying to break through the line without an outright slaughter- and with no air cover- is their number one task. In some ways, they are behind because the western cheerleaders expected a blitzkrieg and now they are disappointed. The Ukrainians always knew the number one task is to avoid a slaughter and live to fight on the other side of the breaking the line. Whether they are behind of where they need to be with what they have or whether they are just behind where the popcorn eating tv watchers expected them to be remains to be seen.

    The Russians are dug in hard with vast, vast minefields and trenches. The Ukrainians are also behind because they decided to stay and continue to slug it out in Bakhmut which they will take sometime soon at great cost, and to the Russians as well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2023
    #13002     Jul 10, 2023
  3. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    Russia has been using cluster bombs in Ukraine since 2014. When your enemy is using cluster bombs which have a 40% failure rate (hence leaving unexploded munitions on the ground) then it is quite appropriate to use cluster munitions in response. Note that U.S. cluster munitions have a failure rate of under 1%.

    I can understand some members of Congress having legitimate concerns, but the reality is that extremist Republicans like Marjorie Taylor Greene are simply using the cluster munitions as an attack point against the Biden administration - she (and other GOPers) could care less about the actual munitions (and potential damage).

    Yes, the progress in Ukraine's offense is slow. The Russians have had months to prepare defensive positions. There has been no major advance just the slow (and bloody) seizure of Ukrainian land back from the Russian invaders. It is true that standard artillery ammo is running low as large amounts are fired each day in the offense.
     
    #13003     Jul 10, 2023
  4. SunTrader

    SunTrader

    And where do you get that truth from?

    Did our defense contractors suddenly shut down? We left Afghanistan and limited presence in Iraq and Syria. Of course we can never have too many bombs according to paranoid wingnuts. Still we are the world's war making producer. Doubt we ever get caught short-handed of much of anything.
     
    #13004     Jul 10, 2023
  5. SunTrader

    SunTrader

    [​IMG]
    NBC News

    Putin met Prigozhin days after mercenary leader led mutiny
    Story by Yuliya Talmazan • 2h ago


    upload_2023-7-10_9-51-22.png

    [​IMG]

    Putin met Prigozhin days after mercenary leader led mutiny© Provided by NBC News

    Russian President Vladimir Putin met with the Wagner mercenary chief and his fighters just days after they threatened to topple the country’s military leadership and marched on Moscow, the Kremlin said Monday.

    Yevgeny Prigozhin and top commanders at Wagner Group met Putin in the Kremlin on June 29, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said during his daily call with reporters.

    The meeting lasted nearly three hours, Peskov said, and some 35 people attended.

    Prigozhin and other members of Wagner did not comment publicly on the meeting and the Kremlin's version of events couldn't be confirmed.

    It’s the first time that the Kremlin has talked about an in-person meeting between Putin and the man who presented the first real challenge to the Russian president’s two-decade rule. The fate and exact whereabouts of the Wagner chief remained a mystery after he was supposedly sent into exile to neighboring ally, Belarus, as part of a deal negotiated by Belarus leader Alexander Lukashenko.

    The purported deal aborted Prigozhin’s short-lived mutiny attempt, which Putin called “treason” and “a stab in the back.” Western analysts said it showed cracks in Putin’s grasp on power, and weakened his authority.

    Peskov said he did not know the details of what exactly was discussed in the meeting, but said Putin “gave an assessment” of Wagner’s actions on the front lines in Ukraine, where the well-trained and armed force has been one of Russia’s strongest strategic assets, and the events that happened on June 24, when the mutiny attempt took place.

    He said Putin listened to “explanations” by Wagner commanders about what happened that day and offered them further options of employment and use in combat.

    Wagner commanders also presented their own version of events on the day of the mutiny, Peskov added, emphasizing that they were “staunch supporters and soldiers of the head of state and the supreme commander in chief,” referring to Putin.

    It’s not clear why the Kremlin decided to publicize the meeting with Prigozhin, which happened nearly two weeks ago, now, but it has been trying to project a sense of order and unity weeks after the mutiny saw Prigozhin’s fighters get to within just over 100 miles of Moscow.

    Prigozhin’s revolt failed to substantially divide the Russian society and did not see any high-profile political or military figures switch to his side. Since then, Prigozhin has been battered by Kremlin-controlled state media as a self-centered traitor, while Putin had received praise for ending the mutiny and “unifying” the nation.

    This article was originally published on NBCNews.com
     
    #13005     Jul 10, 2023
  6. UsualName

    UsualName

    It takes quite a while to restock munitions.
     
    #13006     Jul 10, 2023
  7. UsualName

    UsualName

    For the record I am not opposed to giving Ukraine cluster bombs.
     
    #13007     Jul 10, 2023
  8. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    This is quite a situation. Surprised that Putin did not simply push him out the window during the meeting.
     
    #13008     Jul 10, 2023
  9. SunTrader

    SunTrader

    For others to do. He's too short, might have fell out with him.
     
    #13009     Jul 10, 2023
    gwb-trading likes this.
  10. gwb-trading

    gwb-trading

    Well then...

    "Here, Yevgeny. How about some tea."
     
    #13010     Jul 10, 2023