Retail Firm for High Volume Traders

Discussion in 'Retail Brokers' started by EricP, Apr 14, 2004.

  1. EricP


    Can anyone recommend a good retail firm for an active and consistently successful automated trader?

    The minimum requirements would be:
    -- 0.20 to 0.25 cps max for stock trades
    -- pass-through ECN fees
    -- ability to locate my server at their location to better connect to their datafeed and order server
    -- excellent system reliability

    The ideal firm would also have:
    -- access to futures markets (CBOT, CME)
    -- access to foreign markets (Eurex, foreign equities) (not critical, but would be nice)
    -- a very good selection of trading routes for Nasdaq stocks (INET, ARCA, BRUT, and ideally one or more autoexecution routes such as ATDS, SCHB, NITE, etc)
    -- good tech guys to help integrate my trading system into their data feed and order server.

    The firm could expect to see Nasdaq transaction volume of 700 to 1300 tickets per day totalling 150k to 250k shares per day. Current futures volume is less predictable, but is running at ~300 to 2000 contracts per month. The trading volume is expected to continue to increase from these current levels.

    My current firm has begun having reliability problems recently and I feel it's time to begin reviewing other options. I would appreciate recommendations that anyone might have, either on this thread or via PM.


  2. Well for automated trading, I will share a firm that is probably perfect. It is not very well known to many - but those in the automated business, especially hedge funds, know it pretty well. It is Genesis Securities: and they do exactly that: host blackboxes, provide execution and have the lowest rates that I have heard of.
    I have a contact information there, which I will be wise enough not to post here, but if anyone is interested, PM me and I will share it.

    Good luck with automation - thats the future of trading.
  3. jseeberg



    Let me and Interactive Brokers be a resource for your tading interest.

    Interactive Brokers, particularly with its Universal Account offering the ability to margin stocks, options and futures from 38 market centers in 13 countries in one account, can offer you low cost execution.

    IB would meet your demand for a firm that can integrate your trading system into our routing environment through various api choices. Let me be more specific.

  4. EricP


    Thanks for the suggestion. I talked to a guy a Genesis this morning and they sound like they might be a very good fit for me. I was impressed with what I heard from them.

    Thanks again,

  5. EricP



    I left you a voicemail and look forward to hearing from you.



  6. I guess they are more well known than I imagined!
  7. H2O


    Just curious.....

    Will IB match these rates ?????
  8. nitro


    I am curious,

    How is going thru you any different than going to IB directly? Do you work for IB?

    I have the need of the lowest commission possible on futures as well. What kind of commissions would you be talking for 200- 600 RTs a day in the YM?

  9. nitro


    Do they do futures?

  10. EricP


    To answer a few of the questions recently posted on this thread:

    H2O: No, IB isn't able to match what I am looking for. I think that IB is an excellent broker (from what I've heard) for small to mid-sized traders, but they are not able to meet the needs of highly active traders, IMO. The reason for this is that they seem to have a single model for all clients, basically the same cost for all clients, and are unable to tailor their pricing to meet the needs of individual clients.

    For example, I primarily trade Nasdaq stocks. I am very active on ECN's and add and remove liquidity from ECN's in almost equal fractions. As a result, my net ECN costs are not that great, as my ECN rebates almost fully offset my ECN costs. As a result, for me it is very important to have commissions set up with "pass through" ECN fees/rebates. I need a firm to charge me a fixed cents per share for my commissions, and just pass through to me all ECN costs. This way, the firm has no risk of my incurring excessive ECN costs, which they would be responsible for, offsetting their profits on my account. And, as a result they could offer me a lower rate, while still guaranteeing themselves a nice profit from my trading. This is better for the firm, and better for me.

    For IB, however, their corporate policy is to charge fees on an "all in" basis. In this way, they take the risk for potentially high ECN charges (up to 0.4 cents per share ECN fee for ARCA externally routed orders). As a result of this "all in" policy, they cannot set competitively low pricing schedules, because the client might have a strategy that exclusively takes liquidity from ECN books, with a large frequency of external routing, and this would eat up all of their commission revenue. Until IB changes their policy of requiring ALL clients to be on an "all in" pricing schedule, I don't think they will be a competitive option for high volume traders. That said, I think they are likely an excellent choice for most retail clients.

    Nitro: Yes, John Seeberg does work for IB. Def recommended that I contacted him. Also, regarding Genesis, => No, they don't currently trade futures, but I believe they plan to add futures in the near future (not certain on timing).

    #10     Apr 17, 2004