AAA: >There is of course a lot of violence in the Old Testament, >but it was for a specific purpose, namely getting the >Israelites to the Promised Land. More canned crap from a christian who doesn't know their bible. Deut. 13 calls for the death and destruction of entire cities if it is found that these cities house unbelievers. "Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again." This is JUST ONE of a myriad of example having nothing to do whatsoever "getting getting the Israelites to the Promised Land" >There is no eternal call for believers to go and try to expand >their empire through war and conquest. Clearly that is >exactly what muslims are under an obligation to do. It's not >even debatable. ROFL... Of course it's debatable -- Millions of peaceful muslims who diligently study the Koran disagree with you ... that makes it BY DEFINITION debatable you idiot. Once again, if you pick and choose you can make both the bible and the koran either wonderfully gentle books or horribly violent. Any other position than the above just doesn't fit the published pages. I understand that the overwhelming percentage of christians interpret their bible in a peaceful way -- same with the muslims. JB
Evidently. Funniest thing is, christ could not in fact have been a christian. Which begs the question, what did he call his philosophy?
Religion! Religion, in my way of thinking, is a faithful devotion to separating, and/or distinguishing truth from illusion. It was called "the way" after my appearance. The way was always there before I found it. Once I took it, I became a symbol of it. It's trademark is about identity. I did not call it wayism, truthism, lifeism. I merely stated who I am. I am everything. This is realized by staying focused on the true desire of the heart, rather than the wishes of the mind. The thinking mind wishes to be small, something other than Self. It makes this world and makes your bed in it. Anyone who thinks can know Self as everything if thought is not allowed to get in the way. If everyone is everything, then clearly, we are one. The appearance of many is passing away. As Jesus, I symbolize ego as it lays itself down. As Christ, I am my Self with all that is. The idea of Jesus died as the "mind of Jesus" released its faith in the stories of the world as mere dreams. That included the ideas of birth, humanity, individual will, and death. In letting go, I was raised up to Heaven. The symbol of Jesus is the symbol of everything that is true of you. If you see me as separate from you, you limit yourself to the perception of the first covenant, that is, the "old testament". As you choose to accept Jesus as a symbol of all that is true about you, you choose to rise within your Self to the acceptance of the new covenant. The acceptance of the new covenant is the acceptance of new sight within the world. New sight within the world is an open doorway from the world. Here is where "Christianity" stumbles and remains with the old covenant and its symbols. The world is an illusion of separateness. As you see it as an illusion you desire no more, you return your mind to the true Heart, and that is the Heart of One. This is the truth, meaning there can never be any guilt. Those who practice "the Way" see the world as an expression of Self. That is why they love their brother as their Self. But they know that what seems separate is a dream, and passes away as faith is withdrawn from separateness. The idea that there can be believers and unbelievers does not change the truth about one Self. A believer is simply one who is in the process of laying down the idea of separateness. There is no other way. What maintains separations has lost its way. The old covenant is about sameness...about understanding what that means. Oneness retains that idea and goes further. With the acceptance of oneness, all sins are forgiven because it is accepted and understood that sin could never have existed. That which is seen is seen because it is a reflection of what is in your mind. What you see is not a fact that cannot be changed or cannot be seen differently. Accept this fact. It is your judgment that gives you a world of pain. Accept this fact. There is no judgment in the world. There is only judgment in your mind. By judgment you have declared, "This is all that I am"...limiting yourself to your judgment. "Christians" have limited themselves by many such judgments. They have taken the sins of the world and placed them upon their own shoulders and held them there. I did the same. But I released them as illusions, accepting Christ instead. The teachings of Christ are this: I am Christ. I am all that is perfect, and all that is perfect is in me. I am in the Father and the Father is in me. All that I am not is illusion, and I am all that I am. "Christians" have decided this is not true about themselves. They have the right to hang on the cross as long as they like. I urge them to let go of ideas of unworthiness. If not, the world they see and experience will be full of fear and pain. When you see the Christ in you, you see the Christ in everyone and everything. And when you see the Christ in anyone, you also see the Christ in you. To overcome the world is to see beyond, so that you know what it is that you see, and no longer fooled by the images of the world. The images are masks on the face of Christ. See the world as a masquerade and you will soon see that it is not worth attending past midnight. That is when you choose to go Home. Jesus
Yes Johnny, I know where this goes and I'll say it again... OK, this Christ guy may have been presented as a really nice guy -- peaceful and all, but his dad is a violent ***hole who according to "historical record" throws his power around like an insecure twit. Christ had plenty of opportunity to disassociate himself from his dad -- and he didn't. IN FACT (according to "historical record"), he said he was here to do the ***hole's bidding. So, there's a lesson in this for those that pay attention... in a 'good cop - bad cop' play. *there is no good cop*. JB
Your quote from Deutoronomy loses its effect when it is quoted in context. The immediately preceding verses state explicitly that this instruction only concerned cities of the Israelites which had forsaken God and were worshipping Belial. It in no way applies to expanding the empire through conquest and violence. We both know that there was a lot of violence in the Old Testament, and that many offense against God's Law were punishable by death, including the one you cited. That is pretty much the whole point of the New Testament. The point you can't seem to grasp is that plenty of modern islamic scholars interpret the koran and related materials to justify, indeed mandate, violent jihad against non-believers. There is no serious argument that they are misinterpreting it. Of course, not all muslims obey, just as some drink alcohol or commit other violations. Whatever. This is beginning to go around in circles. If you choose to deny reality, I can't help you.
You are a biblical scholar. So, you will recall that in my exchanges with the Pharisees, I said that the devil was their father. Theirs was the "God" of this world. This is the god/gods who made earth, male and female, and carries a long grudge for small mistakes...who throws power around like an "insecure twit". None of this describes "my Father". The Postle Saul sought to legitimize "the Way" in the eyes of magistrates who were charging him with this and that. He did this by tying the God of the Way to "the God of our fathers". This, as I've already pointed out, is the "devil". Only a devil would conceive of killing to save. Only a devil would carry a grudge. Only a devil would require sacrifice or payment of debt. Only a devil would condemn and imprison. Our Father is no cop. Jesus
"The point you can't seem to grasp is that plenty of modern islamic scholars interpret the koran and related materials to justify, indeed mandate, violent jihad against non-believers. There is no serious argument that they are misinterpreting it. Of course, not all muslims obey, just as some drink alcohol or commit other violations." No serious argument modern Islamic scholars are misinterpreting it? You read all the arguments? You are qualified to understand their arguments? You think Buddhists and Hindus are qualified to render expert opinions on the New Testament? So absurd and self absorbed are the kristian klannish. Does it bother you at all to be so narrow minded? You are just another myopic white male INCO who doesn't follow his own scriptures and then simultaneously thinks he knows what is the truth of other scriptures of other religions. Seriously, reading you is like watching someone try to paint postage stamps with a 12" paint roller...
AAA: >Your quote from Deutoronomy loses its effect when >it is quoted in context. ROFL -- only in your dreams. The context proves my point exactly, that you are wrong about all OT violence being about "getting to the promised land. >The immediately preceding verses state explicitly that >this instruction only concerned cities of the Israelites >which had forsaken God and were worshipping Belial. >It in no way applies to expanding the empire through >conquest and violence. ...and it in NO WAY applies to "getting to the promised land" does it? >If you choose to deny reality, I can't help you Can't admit your wrong can you -- even when you yourself have to change your story about the violence. I used to catalogue "Mav facts". New category... "AAA facts" AAA fact #1: Violence in the old testament is ONLY there to get the Israelites to the promised land (or some other reason only admitted to every time the above is proven wrong). ROFLAO! JB
JohnnyK: :Our Father is no cop. Then the bible is not his word (by their fruits ye shall know them). Hey, I have no problem with the above -- it's been a lot of years since I believed that the bible was the inspired word of god. Peace. JB