In either case all you find is you keep re-discovering "God". That you find your own discovery repulsive and unacceptable is not my problem.
I just don't know why you guys refuse to admit you're opposite sides of the same coin. The very evidence you claim to prove your theory is exactly the same evidence the theist uses...nature itself. Ultimately both sides come to the point of origin which neither can explain with certainty, and both require a good deal of imagination and assumption. Your secularism is more cult like than the religion you condemn.
Are you seriously trying to suggest even in principle, "something from nothing" could only be a miracle? You mean like thunder and magnetic forces can only be miracles for example?
Unfortunately you are just like the theist that gets flustered that his religion does not answer all questions. You need to come to grips with the reality that science has it's limitations as well.
Not true. On one side the theist has miracles magic superstition and imaginary beings to answer the question. On the other ,science has facts knowledge information which suggest and predict particular possible answers to the question. Science is fact without conclusion. Religion conclusion without fact.
Haha, the only thing that flusters me is the stupidity and ignorance of people like yourself. Anyone reading my statement can clearly see that I admitted the limitations of science at this moment in time, and tried to (futile effort) explain to you the differences between philosophy, conjecture and science. People used to think that the Earth magically appeared in 7 days, and some ignorant muppets still place its age at around 6 to 10 thousand years. Science irrefutebly proved them wrong. It is perfectly within the realms of science to be able to prove (if it actually is!) that the universe is an infinite closed system. The only problem with such conjecture is your inability to understand it, and admit that if proven it would effectively rule out a 'creator'. To be honest I have better things to do with my time than to discuss this with such an ignorant fool. I suspect that you are not a trader, as I doubt any successful trader could have such a small irrational brain. Maybe you just 'pray' for the market to go the direction you want.
First of all, "fact" is a relative term. Facts change as we learn more. I'll agree that many in the religious community are in the, it's all settled, God did it camp. It appears that modern day secularism is following that same model of thinking. I simply argue that it ain't all settled, from creation to climate change, it ain't settled, and I'm unwilling to make dramatic changes to our way of life based upon somebody's bright idea. I'm especially unwilling, when people have proven, once again, they'll do whatever it takes to produce the desired results. The "church" has done that by witholding and distorting evidence, and now we see that science is capable of the very same thing. Everyone needs to take a deep breath and get back to basics, and basics 101 is lets be honest about our research.
Since you know you cannot show yourself superior in the present discussion you once again try the one-up-manship game. If you are so sure of your trading prowess , I encourage you to take the Index piker challenge. But I must warn you your chances are not good there either. http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=181872