Relating Evolution and Intelligent Design

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Teleologist, Dec 7, 2008.

  1.  
    #41     Dec 8, 2008
  2. Innocent until proven guilty.

    There is no proof there isn't a god so it can't be a lie, yet. It can only be faith that it isn't a lie. However strong the faith in it not being a lie really does not matter.
     
    #42     Dec 8, 2008
  3. You do not know what you are talking about. You do not even know enough to know that you don't know.

    There are transitional fossils.

    There is no evidence of a global flood.

    The evidence that the earth is extremely old preceded the discovery of radioactive dating methods, which are demonstrably accurate.

    You must be reading Kent Hovind, Ken Ham, or some other discredited creationist (actually, in scientific terms, they've all been discredited). Clearly, you do not know much about the science of geology.

    I don't want to pick on you or anyone else, since a fair and honest look at the evidence would destroy your faith. I'll end this and let you off the hook, since I really do not want to destroy anyone's faith. But, to be frank, you do not know what you are talking about.
     
    #43     Dec 9, 2008
  4. Nope. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

    Speaking of deep thinking, let's consider what I think you're trying to convey, which is: there is no God or, you personally don't believe in God. If that is what you think or believe, then tell me were did the original concept of God come from?
     
    #44     Dec 9, 2008
  5. Correct. Or, rather, the biblical gOd is the proverbial "devil". As such, the devil has a "right hand" and a "left hand" that does not know what the right hand is doing. It has "consciousness" and also "subconscious"- ness. There is also a "good" face and an "evil" face, such that the "devil" is two-faced and fork-tongued...speaking sweet and bitter words out of both sides of its mouth...both "blessing" and cursing. The good news is that it may be dispossed of it's place in the mind of Christ any time truth is preferred to delusion.

    Christ!
     
    #45     Dec 9, 2008
  6. Here is why knowing GoD takes faith...for those swallowed up by faith-based phenomena. "The universe" is a faith-based phenomena...is maintained by faith...and is exited by faith. "The universe" is the proverbial "belly of the whale" of which Jesus spoke. Escape requires going back out the labyrinth the way one came into the labyrinth. What comes by faith goes by faith.

    To understand faith, understand first that desire precedes the phenomenon of faith, which is unnatural to the One who knows. The universe is the evidence of a desire to "know" more than knowledge itself. What is beyond knowledge cannot be "known", but only believed. Knowledge is an attribute of reality. When what is believed is made to seem "real", it is thought to be known or knowable. But anything "known" about "the universe" is ultimately uncertain...believed...percieved...based on probabilities, not certainties...based on appearances, not truth.

    To "know thySelf" is to know thySelf as the totality of certain knowledge itself. This means that "the universe" is evidence of a desire to know not thySelf. Knowing not, you "know not" what you do. In the realm of know not, you can not know anything until you desire to know everything.

    Before the desire to know not...or, "know" beyond knowledge, there was no evidence of anything other than the totality of Self, which is everything, equal to GoD. That desire has virtually obliterated certain knowledge of Self, hence, of GoD. There is no evidence of thy Self in "the universe" which is set up to deny thy Self. To that extent, the endeavor to deny thy Self has been successful. If you wait for evidence of Self to change your desire that there be no evidence of Self, then you will wait virtually forever. The way back to "know thy Self" must begin with desire, regardless the apparent lack of evidence.

    Your desire for "the universe" will keep you in it, uncertain of anything at all...not knowing anything. In this way, desire is king, and you always get what you desire...what you "want". I repeat, "the universe" is the expression of a desire to not know anything, to be uncertain, to deny any evidence whatsoever that you are who you are: the totality of everything real. "The universe" is evidence of a desire to "know" what is impossible to know. So it is a desire to not know anything. Get it? What is called "knowledge" in such a world, is actually just an accumulation of learning. It is not true knowledge.



    Knowing is a pre-faith reality. A couple of its attributes are:

    A. Total [complete, whole, unlearned]
    B. Certain, without doubt

    The world of intelligent design is what is beyond knowledge...therefore beyond "you". What is beyond knowledge is the unknown, the land of learning and adapting. Evolution is an expression of learning/adapting beyond knowledge. It is evidence of thought...thinking about what is beyond you...what is nOt you.

    The world is a single self-concept expressed as many self-concepts. It is a concept of what you are not.

    The question then will boil down to this:

    What do you want?

    You will be fooled by your desire, or released by your desire accordingly. Faith will follow your desire and cause the realms of the unknown to yeild evidence that you are on the true path back to "know thy Self".

    Again, what do you want?

    To be thy Self, or not to be? That is the question.

    Christ!
     
    #46     Dec 9, 2008
  7. stu

    stu

    no jem, I don't do that. You are less coherent than "a wack job atheist".
     
    #47     Dec 9, 2008
  8. stu

    stu

    ..that's the same as saying .... Hitler was not the problem, just people's definition and their tactics at enforcing his will.
    In other words, a cop out.
     
    #48     Dec 9, 2008
  9. stu

    stu

    No, I'm not being sarcastic. Look at an extremist view like peilthetraveler and others,. They know there is a god.
    Who are you to say they think they know ? (no offense just making the point).

    Nevertheless, both the atheist and theist starting with clean slates and only very little information, both are entitled to form their own opinions but not their own facts.

    In order to establish fact, there is a clearly defined and well understood practical method that's worked over eons.
    Fact is , god has no more validity by comparison than Thor or more seasonally, Santa Clause.

    To want proof as a fact that god doesn't exist, is akin to wanting proof Goldilocks doesn't exist or the little magical fairy people don't exist.

    To want proof that they do exist before accepting them as fact , or accepting on faith were it to have any integrity, is I suggest, far more appropriate a way to ascertain what is and isn't likely to be ably claimed as known fact.

    God, Goldilocks and the Little Fairy Folk don't muster any substantial information beyond fantasy which validates a possibility they exist. So to ask for proof they don't exist as a fact over that , has less cogency than even they do themselves.
     
    #49     Dec 9, 2008
  10. stu

    stu

    ......and when you do look - scientifically -, Evolution is found to be the designer you crave for. There is no further need to infinite regress a designer upon a designer , as your version of Creationism would have everyone do, if only it could.
     
    #50     Dec 9, 2008