1. If God exists, then he is immutable. 2. If God exists, then he is the creator of the universe. 3. An immutable being cannot at one time have an intention and then at a later time not have that intention. 4. For any being to create anything, prior to the creation he must have had the intention to create it, but at a later time, after the creation, no longer have the intention to create it. 5. Thus, it is impossible for an immutable being to have created anything 6. Therefore, it is impossible for God to exist DO YOU UNDERSTAND LOGIC??!! IS IT WITHIN YOUR MEAGER ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND LOGIC!! H LOGIC IS IRREFUTABLE!!! IT IS WHAT IT IS!! EHEHE!
Daniel probably could. Im just glad he is on our side Im trying to stay out of this debate, but alphies post just got me going because it SOUNDED good but was actually quite weak. So I just couldnt let it go ;-) Gonna tag team with Daniel, WWF style.... TAG...your up daniel! lol (No, I dont watch that crap...hehe ) peace axeman
axeman, This is exactly why, for me, debating the presence and existence of a god is a waste of time. I know that a creator exists due to the experiences in *my* life than have led me to that conclusion. furthermore, you obviously refute this due to the experiences within *your* life. Who is right and who is wrong is of no concern to me, since my beliefs suit me as well as your beliefs suit you. This is the nature of life and this is why it is good to be an individual and free-thinker. To debate with you on this subject would suggest that I have some need to prove my beliefs to you, but that would merely be an attempt to assert all of my cumulative life experiences overtop yours and forcing you to see something in a light that you, from your present position, are incapable of seeing. That is not meant as an insult. I am incapable of seeing your viewpoint from my present position. However, in 100 years, we will both be dead, and any words we exchange on this matter will have no influence or bearing on the "real truth" to existence. If you are right, lights out -- it was great while it lasted. If I am right, I'll see you on the flip-side.
axe, you have definately stimulated some thinking on my part--thanks ! however, beyond the logic, do you believe that man simply ceases to exist after death ?? OR do you have the balls to admit that you do not know what happens after death ?? best, surf
nice aphie. NO amount of logic can refute one's personal experience. perhaps you should of said, i'll see you on the DARK side....... best, surf
Great to hear. I love getting peoples mind gears going To get to your question.... Does you dog cease to exist after death? How about an ant? How about a bacterium? Do we have ANY reason to believe this is true? Do we have ANY evidence that this is the case? Nope. Nope. Is it possible? Sure it is. Is there a rational reason to believe this is the case? Nope. Do I know what happens after death? No. Do I have any clue at all? No. Have I seen any reason to believe in anyones claims of life/something after death? No. I have never seen any evidence that suggests a person can exist outside of his physical body. I have seen that once a brain stops functioning, because of death or any other reason, the person I once knew no longer interracts with me or resembles that person. I can assume nothing beyond my observation that when a person dies, there is nothing. Is there life after death? The only rational answer is, I DONT KNOW. That is one of the big differences between an intellectually honest person, like me, and most theists. I DONT KNOW is a VERY valid answer in my belief system. It is the only rational answer. peace axeman
axeman , Thanks. I read your post with the expectations that you would prove or disprove life after death, but you have merely left us back at the original question plus a few kilobytes on a hard-drive to boot. aphie
The same is true for god. The default rational stance on god is, I dont know. There is no evidence, so therefore I cant believe it. This does not mean its impossible. But it IS irrational to believe in a god without evidence. HOWEVER, if you give me a very specific definition of god, I can usually find a logical contradiction with the definition and then take the stance that THAT god cant exist. The strong atheist position. By default, I take the weak atheist position until a definition is given. peace axeman
the ONLY thing we can compare death to is BEFORE BIRTH. we have ALL already experienced what it was like to be not alive. if you want to know what being not alive is like, just ask yourself: "WHAT WAS MY LIFE LIKE 10,000 YEARS AGO?" IT WAS NOTHING!!! DEATH = BACK TO NOTHINGNESS. religious people just don't want to accept this answer because they want more. they don't like the answer. HOWEVER, i can admit, i do not know FOR SURE. but nobody else here does either. this would just be my bet.
A study of basic statistics will quickly refute that claim. Personal experience can be horribly misleading, especially after you look at the big picture. Look at how supersitions are formed. These are based on false correlations which are made during a PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. A drug may not work for you, but it works for 80% of the other people. Does that mean the drug doesnt work? Nope. You take a bunch of recreational drugs. You see , hear, and experience many things. Are they real? Nope. Once again.... relying on personal experience can be very misleading. peace axeman