Regarding the Existence or Absence of God

Discussion in 'Politics' started by rs7, Aug 29, 2002.

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  1. I don't know what properties God, if a God exists, has. All that I have argued, which I think is meaningful in a 250 page debate where many people on each side have pushed faulty absolutes is that the concept of an omniscient being IS POSSIBLE!



    You say logic is all encompassing. Math is the most fundamental part of our logic, and it is proven in math itself that our math/logic (useful as it is for our purposes) is flawed (Goedell's Theorem, Russell's paradox, etc) in its foundations (and this is proven about debate logic/math as well-Russel's Paradox).

    True, there could be millions of such entities, although the idea that one entity is responsible for everything is easier for me to imagine (rightly or wrongly). And I don't think my points are meaningless at all for the reasons I stated above.
     
    #1621     Sep 26, 2002
  2. yes, I have, except for some (most actually) of T-Dolt's cut and pastes.
     
    #1622     Sep 26, 2002
  3. Not only this, but for that matter I have made many posts arguing with theists who have gone too far as well pushing as fact what is not or arguing the validity of evolution, etc.
     
    #1623     Sep 26, 2002
  4. Fine, let's say if a God exists, and if this God is otherwise omniscient (but is still omnipotent-I think I've inadventently switched the two a couple times), then it knows everything except what creatures it created are going to do with their free will. So this God is free will away from being omniscient. Does this really change a whole helluva lot?? Or maybe we don't have free will!
     
    #1624     Sep 26, 2002
  5. it doesn't change a "helluva lot" to people like you and i, but i imagine to christians and theists it certainly does.

    it means that god has no idea (or as good idea as we do) of what the future holds. since what the future will be like depends very much on what actions man takes (collectively) today, the future will always be uncertain, even to "god".

    therefore, the god of christianity cannot be said to be infallible. (because he didn't know beforehand the results of his actions, and maybe he got it wrong. uh-oh. :()

    and if we don't have free will....well, imagine the implications of that! man can do whatever he wants, because, afterall, he is not the source of his actions! such a scenario obviously shouts loudly against god being "all-good" (or we'd have to change the meaning of "all-good), because then he'd be punishing people like me for eternity for doing only what i've been created to do!
     
    #1625     Sep 26, 2002
  6. ummmmm ok. I have to admit that I don't concern myself too much with what bothers Christians/very religious people relating to notions that might contradict their books.
     
    #1626     Sep 26, 2002
  7. and when you think about it, it's not really possible, again using that same poor "limited logic", for an omnipotent being to exist without having the property of being omniscient.

    if god is all-powerful, it would mean he should have the "power" to know what is going to happen. but if you agree that omnisience is bunk, then, ipso facto, you would have to say that the concept of omnipotence is self-contradictory.
     
    #1627     Sep 26, 2002
  8. Fine, then assuming that we do actually have free will, then if a God exists, it COULD be virtually omnipotent to the extent that its virtual omniscience would be limited by not knowing what the beings it created will do with their free wills. better??
     
    #1628     Sep 26, 2002
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    #1629     Sep 26, 2002
  10. yeah, that's "better" in the sense that we are getting closer to an idea of the properties of this entity for whom you claim there is a possibility of existance.

    so far i have a being with limited powers and limited knowledge, who used unknowable means (to us) to create the universe. have i got it right so far?
     
    #1630     Sep 26, 2002
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