dinky, disregard the name of the site for just one moment. there are plenty of theists and christians - well informed, intelligent, open minded theists and christians (unlike here)- making some of the best and most exhaustive damn arguments i've ever heard on that site... still, at the end of the day, i find the atheist position far, far more convincing... and in the case for christ, i find the position that a historical christ was a 1st century invention too compelling to ignore. of course, i can't state it as categorical fact, and i'm not asking it to be accepted as such, but no man in his right mind can possibly say that a historical jesus is FACT, and stake a claim to having some special "truth" as a result(as christians like 'bolt do). no way in the world.
come off it bolt. i'll go head to head with you on the history and events of that time period any day of the week. shit, i didn't spend laborious hours researching all that shit for nothing... i just can't be fucked going through it all again here... especially with people like you, when you say that no one in a million years could convince you.. .well what's the point...anyway, it's not like you decided to believe the bible based on reason, you accepted it on faith, so of course no matter how reasonable my argument you'll just shrug it off like nothing happened..
Thunderbolt , If I thought for one second that I could discuss this with you I would try. But you have already displayed many times over, your lack of willingness to debate the subject in a civil and rational manner. Just look back at some of the stuff you have posted. In my opinion people like you are like broken records, stuck in a groove and repeat and repeat the same nonsense over and over . As a form of argument or discussion it is futile and boring . You can't discuss because you already cannot stand for any examination of your gods.You like to take such things as an insult. Any question about one difficult subject to do with your "belief" and you hurl offence or pages out of your story book at everything and everyone. You are lost. You have evidently taken the scenic route on your long and difficult journey towards common sense. This is not a debate. It takes a weak and gullible person to believe the words of a story which has no corroborating evidence worthy of examination. It takes a much stronger person to stand against the crowd and say "The Emperor Has No Clothes". Whether you like it or not, you are a dying breed. You (the religious) have had to change position so much over the centuries in altering your claims and the 'follow me nonsense' , that any chance of even knowing what you are talking about is long past. One last time (I know you can't hear me 'cause you don't want to)... I don't want to convince you of anything. I don't care about imposing on you or convincing you of my views. Unlike you insist on doing to everyone and everything. I only try to debate the seriously massive chasm there is in what you are telling everyone else to believe in or be damned. I bet you still don't get it.
MondoTrader I agree, I think maybe there is something I am missing?? Morality does not belong to the church. Morality belongs to mankind. It is having a concern with the difference between right and wrong and what is and should be understood to be good conduct. Animals as far as it is known cannot make that distinction. (Although I have witnessed some surprising apparent selfless acts undertaken by an animal.) Because mankind can make these distinctions in morality, inalienable rights were set down so that it could be proclaimed that this acknowledgement should be the foundation of government (US). Then you get the list of rights which are inalienable for example life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Are you referring to "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with inherent and inalienable rights; that among these, are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. If so try this "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed with inherent and inalienable rights; that among these, are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Written today that would make a lot more sense to a lot more people and the onus of responsibility would be back in the hands of mankind itself ,instead of a mythical "creator" This creator god was allowed to be placed in every establishment and institution in the days of dark and superstition. Today it should be put back to where it always was. In the name of Right instead of the name of God. It's hard though getting shut of one's imaginary friend as one grows up. note: I'll be honest with you, I get the regular and strongest urge to shout God Bless America every so often. I like to go to church, see the wonderful buildings and art which man was inspired to create in the belief of their gods. I don't believe any of this to be other than the inalienable gifts endowed by life itself.
An atheist was eating with Chuck Colson and remarked how they finally got the 10 commandments out of the schools. Pretty observant athiest,because he admitted that there was a huge increase in killing since then. Chuck Colson said something like they needed to be reminded ''Thou shalt not kill'' [not applicable to military] RS7 if it was up to me I would let you into heaven because you showed us a good IBM trend + your wife keeps a kosher home. I like the way Jesus like the old testiment + Hebrews It is not up to me,it is up to the Word of God.Jesus Christ[ the Word ]claimed to be more than virgin born.Jesus says [the Word] I AM the way the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the father but by me. John 14;6 If you want to find the Lord the book of John is one of the better ones.RS7 you see, that ''name brand faith ''is what God's Word says.
Most traders realize the value of a ''name brand'' What makes you think names are not important??????????????? --------------------------------- ''Names are important''-Solomon Cohen,top trader
Wrong! I did indeed decide to believe in the bible based on reason. My faith kicks in when there are questions that can't be answered with finite minds. My reasoning, however, tells me that an intelligent creator designed the human brain with all those billions of cells. Thus, I believe everything else was created by him. Like I have said before, I have seen the power of God with my own eyes through small children who have never heard or spoken(deaf and dumb) before and through God's power healed them as I was watching. And that's for real, my friend. He performs those same miracles today for those who seek him as he did when he walked the earth. BOLT
All Truth is in and belongs to mankind and resides in humanity. I have seen numerous children healed by the application of science and they continue to be so every day. By the kindness and help of those who dedicate themselves to the healing and care of the sick. By those who had the strength of mind to shed the restraints that religion and superstitious beliefs try to force them into the ground with, and who by strength of character, refused to be bullied away from truth and are able to think the unthinkable so that all may benefit. Anything else is a fraud and pretence. Peoples' gods (including yours Thunderbolt) usurp truth, goodness and kindness in a bid to forward their own deceitful goals. All your expressions confirm that fact to me.
I have no doubt that medicine and science are responsible for wonderful achievements in health for mankind. However, that's totally beside the point. The point is, God has the power to cure that inoperable brain tumor in a blink of an eye while Surgeons have to walk away. God is the almighty and the knowledge man has obtain through 6000 years of R&D is just a super small fraction of what he knows. So, you put your confidence in humanity who will let you down and I'll put my confidence in the Alpha and the Omega. He'll still be here when you & I are dust and bones. BOLT