Real Trading Strategies

profitseer · Sep 17, 2002

The mental aspect IS the STRATEGY! When you are thinking right, you can start a thread about trading strategies, and all you'll get are detailed replies about particular tradiing strategies that other traders have found profitable.

When you're not thinking right, you start a thread about trading strategies, and all you get are vauge replies.

And if you're not thinking right and you start a thread about how to think right, all you will get is replies about trading strategies.

And if some smart aleck says, "So maybe if I want trading strategies, I should start a thread about thinking right!"

I would say, "Now you're starting to think right."

downtickboy · Sep 17, 2002

Originally posted by profitseer
The mental aspect IS the STRATEGY! When you are thinking right, you can start a thread about trading strategies, and all you'll get are detailed replies about particular tradiing strategies that other traders have found profitable.

When you're not thinking right, you start a thread about trading strategies, and all you get are vauge replies.

And if you're not thinking right and you start a thread about how to think right, all you will get is replies about trading strategies.

And if some smart aleck says, "So maybe if I want trading strategies, I should start a thread about thinking right!"

I would say, "Now you're starting to think right."
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Oh Boy. I have had enough. This thread can be compared to how a simple trading strategy can be turned into a complicated mess. Thanks for posts Profitseer. I can't remember, but I think in some other threads you have talked about your e-mini strategy, but I might be wrong on that. If you did -- good work.

Once again thanks Silk for stepping up to the plate and being real and open about your trading.

downtickboy · Sep 17, 2002

Please close this thread, it is not going where the thread was intended to go and it looks like it never will.

vladiator · Sep 17, 2002

Originally posted by downtickboy
That is where we differ in opinion. I think trading is a combination of strategy and mental aspects. You could take a person with the best mental alignment for trading and give him a bunk strategy and he won't make a dime. The purpose of the thread was not to address the mental aspects. That has been discussed to death on other threads. I am not looking to have someones strategy fix my problem. I thought it would be an interesting topic and could be a way to look at the market different from my own perspective. Until proven wrong I am going to assume most traders talk about the mental aspects here because they are not making money with their strategies so they don't have any input in that area. The ones that are doing OK have shared their insights pretty freely. The rest seem are like psych majors who want to become psychologist so they can figure themselves out. However I come from the perspective that I don't mind helping other traders learn. I helped many learn along the way without getting anything in return. It is kind of funny to think that there are traders who feel that telling someone about the MA crossover or their relative strength strategy or whatever else, is actually going to effect their trading on some 5000 stocks or effect their entry in the futures market. I have become frusterated with answers because most are basically cutting and pasting answers from other threads. Most are not really addressing the topic. It becomes a circular discussion that never goes anywhere.
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Dude, I know you feel frustrated, but hey, you HAVE TO DO YOUR OWN WORK! Of course you won't get much of the specifics you want. Take my strategy for example, it identifies about 1-4 stocks per day that I hold overnight and then dump next day. Will my telling you and 100s of others the specific mathematics (Nothing in the entry/exit can be classified as a "gut" feeling, it is all objective, for better or worse) of how I select them affect my performance? YOU BET! There have been a number of studies showing that even the really robust strategies' profits go to zero once you start investing several mil into them (I'm talking short term strategies here), b/c of price pressure. You do the math.
The same applies to any other strategy. Yes, some of them ARE very subjective and what someone does and earn $$ may not lead to others making money doing a similar thing. But if they give you enough of the specifics you keep asking for, then the chance of you taking some of their $$$ is pretty high.
This board is a great resource and I have learned a great deal here. People are very smart and experienced and will share their knowledge of trading generously, when it comes to how to get set up, why something that happened to your trade happened and how to go about it etc. But how naive do you have to be to just come and say "I know you've worked for years trying to develop smth that works, paying a lot in $$$ lost and nerves messed up during the process, you beat hunderds of others who failed along the way - now won't you just tell me what it is you are doing???" Come on, you might as well as them for their cars keys.

larrybf · Sep 17, 2002

VLADIATOR: thanks for taking the time and effort to post the cold , honest, unpopular truth about the limitations of trading when youy factor in liquidity.# 1 reason i do not trade anyone elses money!!

AAAintheBeltway · Sep 17, 2002

Originally posted by vladiator

...But how naive do you have to be to just come and say "I know you've worked for years trying to develop smth that works, paying a lot in $$$ lost and nerves messed up during the process, you beat hunderds of others who failed along the way - now won't you just tell me what it is you are doing???" Come on, you might as well as them for their cars keys.
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I have to agree. There are plenty of backtested systems available at Wealth Lab or TradeStation sites. Plenty of traders here have been very generous with their strategies, Seanote being a prime example. The man posted realtime trades and explained to anyone who asked why he took them. What more could you ask for?

downtickboy · Sep 17, 2002

First of all I am not lazy. I have gone thru more shit to get where I am at than you would believe. Second if your arguement was really true then why is it that probably the top money makers on this board -- Seanote, Silk, and RS7 had not problem discussing how they trade? There are a few chat board operators that visit this site and they discuss their strategy freely with a lot of traders too. Some of them actually trade their calls. Although they get paid for this service I am sure if it really screwed up their trading success then they would not do it. According to you they better watch out because their trading style is about to become obsolete. It seems they are confident enough in their abilities and what they are doing to discuss their style. I am sure there are very few successful traders here that sat in an isolated room by themselves and figured out how to trade the markets. For the most part it does not really work like that. That is why you have people on here suggesting for traders to get mentors. I already know how to trade and make money. I am just trying to get to the next level. I will carry on my discussions about this topic thru PM with traders I feel are successful instead of wasting my time defending the thread topic. That way I don't offend anyone thinking my 2000 shares will move the market on them.

toby400 · Sep 17, 2002

face up to it Downtickboy....you will not find the holy grail here.

Stop bleating, blow the cobwebs from your mind and do the hard work necessary for success - study etc.

Don't expect anyone here to hand you the holy grail.

Everyone has his/her method of trading, some methods are bits of advice that may be seen as cliches, but they are necessary starting points. You're too lazy , even, to take on board the many hints given freely on this thread, and too idle to be grateful for such.

get off your butt and practice, sift information, practice again, then get out there and work.

You're right, lets close this thread. Enough is enough. If you want spoon feeding - go find a mentor or snakeoil merchant.

And get a life!

downtickboy · Sep 17, 2002

Originally posted by AAAintheBeltway

I have to agree. There are plenty of backtested systems available at Wealth Lab or TradeStation sites. Plenty of traders here have been very generous with their strategies, Seanote being a prime example. The man posted realtime trades and explained to anyone who asked why he took them. What more could you ask for?
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You probably did not know or do it on purpose but thanks for defending my position for me. Too bad you did not see it when you were writing your response.

vladiator · Sep 17, 2002

Originally posted by downtickboy
First of all I am not lazy. I have gone thru more shit to get where I am at than you would believe. Second if your arguement was really true then why is it that probably the top money makers on this board -- Seanote, Silk, and RS7 had not problem discussing how they trade?
There are a few chat board operators that visit this site and they discuss their strategy freely with a lot of traders too. Some of them actually trade their calls. Although they get paid for this service I am sure if it really screwed up their trading success then they would not do it. According to you they better watch out because their trading style is about to become obsolete. It seems they are confident enough in their abilities and what they are doing to discuss their style. I am sure there are very few successful traders here that sat in an isolated room by themselves and figured out how to trade the markets. For the most part it does not really work like that. That is why you have people on here suggesting for traders to get mentors. I already know how to trade and make money. I am just trying to get to the next level. I will carry on my discussions about this topic thru PM with traders I feel are successful instead of wasting my time defending the thread topic. That way I don't offend anyone thinking my 2000 shares will move the market on them.
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I am one of those who did sit in an isolated room, first of all. And I believe that EVERYONE should first do that - sit there and read, read, read - study, write simulations, practice, learn, test - and only then go and ask for advice on how to adjust what you have come up with in that room to reality.
I'm positive that most of those traders you are referring to have invested a lot in their education. They didn't drop out of high school, then get a mentor and become millionairs. Seems like that's they way you see it happening. Trading is not a craft you can learn by just watching, it's a science. Yes, there is an element of art to it, but without science you won't get far.
Secondly, yes, you are right, some of the succeful traders will tell you SOME of what they are doing. Or they'll give you a general approach in vague terms. The key thing is THEY WILL NOT GIVE YOU ALL YOU NEED TO JUST REPLICATE WHAT THEY ARE DOING and make money. Hence, their systems will not become obsolete.
Think about it, if they did in fact tell you enough, would you still be begging for more specifics???????? The reason you are is b/c what they did unveil was not sufficient. Well, dude, the truth is IT AIN'T GONNA BE!!!!!