Real facts on economic impact of ObamaCare

Discussion in 'Economics' started by riddler, Dec 10, 2012.

  1. riddler


    I have always voted for who i thought would do the best job running the country, i have voted republican as well as democrat. what bothers me is how many people talk about how bad ObamaCare is and how much of a socialist he is. whats annoying/ frustrating is most people couldnt even tell you what a socialist is or even understand any pro's and cons of ObamaCare; talk about ignorance. so here is my questions to some of you and feel free to comment further if you please.
    1) If small business( 50 or more employees) have to offer insurance to employees, how will they oay for it? will they force the employee to cover the full cost which reduces their income? will the 30% tax credit mean employers will pay 30% of the cost only because thats equal to the credit which makes everything a wash?
    2) small business with less than 50 employees will not be effected at all?
    3) how are doctors effected? most doctors are vehemently opposed to ObamaCare.
  2. What if you work in a free clinic, do you need to provide health insurance for your employees.

    What about Drs. they treat themselves or each other PC, do they need to buy health insurance.

    If you're terminally ill, do you need to continue premium payments, you'll soon be dead anyways.
  3. piezoe


    Re "1)" , Wouldn't the employees being forced to cover the full cost be the equivalent of the employer NOT providing health insurance. Some employers will pay a larger percent than others for equivalent wages; thus setting up a competitive wage environment in which some employers will do better then others. I think that is what was intended.

    And, wouldn't it be 30% of the employers cost, thus the employer would bear 70% of their cost, and we taxpayers would subsidize the insurance companies and providers to the tune of 30% of the employers cost. It wouldn't be "a wash" for the employer. For example, it might break down this way for each $100 dollars of health care cost: Employer = $35 ; taxpayer = $15 ; employee $50. (I'm just making this up, but if the cost is split 50/50 between employer and employee and the employee gets a 30% credit, that's the way it would break down. (It's all nuts of course!)

    Re "2)" , Apparently this is a situation where the individual mandate and health care "shopping malls" kick in.

    Re "3)" , Many Doctors are vehemently opposed to any involvement of the government in health care, be it medicare, medicaid, or Obama care. And it is not so much because they make less money, when government is involved, they don't. They are making more money than ever relative to the CPI. They oppose government involvement for the same reason they hate insurance companies, "Red Tape", regulations , and paperwork.
  4. piezoe


    Most doctors, nowadays, carry health insurance for themselves and their families.
  5. I guess those small business will have to pay to cover the employees instead of having taxpayers cover the employees when they get medicaid and go to emergency rooms and have everyone else foot the bill.
  6. clacy


    No one really knows all the ramifications (good or bad). There are always many unintended consequences with things like this.

    Certainly not all businesses are created equal, yet this law acts as if they are.

    For instance, low per-employee profit margin businesses such as restaurants, retail, etc, probably don't currently offer health coverage because there simply isn't enough margin to do so.

    Let me give you an example.....

    I am a part owner/operator of a low per-employee profit margin business.

    We have well over 100 FT employees and over 250 total employees. We offer health insurance only to our salaried managers which is roughly 25 people total. We simply do not have enough money to cover all 100 of our full time employees. All of our competitors are in the same boat.

    Sectors like mine will be forced to cut insurance all together and pay the fine ($2,000 x each FT employee). So our salaried managers will lose their insurance and have to purchase it on their own.

    We will also reduce the hours on our full time hourly employees so that we minimize the number of workers considered full time, so we have to pay fewer fines. That is what my entire industry is in the process of doing. Then my part time employees will be required to buy their own insurance. Unfortunately most of them will be able to afford to do so and will face fines. In my industry, most workers will be forced to have two part time jobs, rather than one full time job... yet still no insurance.

    Let's look at a different example. Let's say you had an engineering firm or a tech firm that employs the same amount of people as my previous example. However, their profit margins may be 10-20x.

    For that company is it easy to provide insurance. However, they already likely do, or they wouldn't be able to attract qualified employees. Let's face it, engineers will not work without health insurance because their market value allows them to.
  7. clacy


    Well, sort of..... But really they will pass it on to their customers.

    In effect, you and I and everyone on here (the US consumer) were benefiting from lower prices on products and services in industries that are low profit margin. Also, many young families were avoiding the cost of insurance as well. Those people will have to pick up some of the burden or be fined.
  8. riddler


    anyone employing 50 or more employees must provide healthcare. does the employer have to pay 100% or does the worker have to pay part of it?
  9. clacy


    I believe that employers have to pay at least 60% of the premium costs.
  10. Ok, I am not positive but that the business with over 50 employees have to pay no less than 60% of the premium, (but the business can not take more than 9.5% from their employee.) So to me it look like if the business have many employees, over 50 employees, and they pay them very low wage, they will pay more than 60%.
    #10     Dec 10, 2012