Reaction to Michael Lewis's book and "60 Minutes" interview

Discussion in 'Wall St. News' started by Maverick74, Apr 1, 2014.

  1. I have explained these ideas years ago, but this is certainly true. NBBO must be accurately time-stamped and distributed to all parties equally, or there is no such objective finite concept. Who here wouldn't trade a 100 shares if we knew for sure that we could sell/buy later to an latent order arriving after we bought/sold it for a arbitrage profit?

    Also, the imbalance between liquidity providers and suppliers is an issue since it promotes potential order imbalances over trading. A flat fee on both sides doesn't favor either side. A lower fee for volume is fine as long as it doesn't promote either buying or selling.

    Finally, instability potentially arises in real world systems (vs theoretical systems) when discrete time system states don't exist. The digital computer jumps discrete state to discrete state no matter how fast it does it. (As has been pointed out in this thread earlier - that is what the latency delay is for. IEX simply guarantees that data is equal for all market participants. Something that has been promised by wall street for decades - wink wink, nudge nudge.)
     
    #31     Apr 3, 2014
  2. Dustin

    Dustin

    Dark pools aren't inherently a bad thing, I use them all the time. Problems only arise when the dark pool is abused. The real problem imo is internalization. A huge percent of retail orders never make it to market. This disrupts the nature of the market by removing incentive to provide liquidity. Remember, the market functions normally 99% of the time...it's the other 1% that everyone should be concerned with.
     
    #32     Apr 3, 2014
  3. baglunch

    baglunch

    Yes dark pools are not inherently bad, but the way they are operated now is open for abuse, it is the internalization that allows for front running (although it does not happen in all cases). This is a problem because most dark pools are owned by sell side banks. If they made it so that the exchanges and ECM/ats could not be owned and definitely not operated by the banks , hedge, prop or anyone with conflicts of interest then there would be less opportunity for abuse and criticism.
     
    #33     Apr 3, 2014
  4. So to clarify: Dark pools aren't bad but if front-running of customers (or other abuses) goes on in the unregulated dark pool, then this is bad.
     
    #34     Apr 3, 2014
  5. game

    game

  6. Themis Trading's Joseph Saluzzi and Dennis Kelleher of Better Markets are now on
    Fox Business "Countdown to the Closing Bell" with Liz Claman and Charlie Gasparino.

    Fox Business scheduled this HFT debate 20 minutes prior to the Close... ??

    http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/closing-bell/index.html
     
    #36     Apr 3, 2014
  7. Zerohedge reports at http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-03/bats-admits-ceo-lied-about-hft-cnbc " .... O'Brien stated that BATS priced its trades off 'high-speed' data feeds when in fact they price their trades off a much slower feed (and therefore 'enable' the exact HFT-front-running that is in question)....."

    Perhaps he should purchase a book and read it a few times. I was amazed to see any CEO take on a technical field expert in that fellow's home field (unless he came through that area), so I gave him the benefit of the doubt. That was a mistake on my part - fool me me once .......

    Doesn't this open him and the firm up to enormous liability? He has just buried his firm IMO with his emotional outbursts. Now, where was he on Feb 5 2013? - was he honestly able positively certify that two people did not visit the new york BATS exchange and thus were having a rare simultaneous delusion that day?

    This illustrates the main problem with HFT - even the people talking don't speak using the same terms. That has to be a new low in corporate governance.
     
    #37     Apr 3, 2014
  8. In a port city I was in, the unions went on strike for higher wages. One of changes was that much of the cargo was now containerized and was harder to get into by villains. The newspapers then called it a demand for "pilfer pay".

    So far the main argument is that in the old market making days "they" used to ripoff more people for more money, so it is only fair we thank HFTs heartily for ripping people off less now. It sounds much like the "pilfer pay" argument to me.
     
    #38     Apr 3, 2014
  9. BATS business model counts on HFT. If HFT disappears so does BATS. It's basically the same thing as insider trading just in microseconds.
     
    #39     Apr 3, 2014
  10. achilles28

    achilles28

    Yep. Lots of shills in print and TV media. Bloomberg TV news anchors acted incredulous with Lewis yesterday and defended HFT. Follow the money; who are Bloombergs biggest advertisers? The exchanges, that reap huge volume off HFT..... Yellow journalism abounds.
     
    #40     Apr 3, 2014