He makes some extremely interesting and valid points here alex.samant, and while a guy who has 3-5 years of screen time unde his belt might be able to solve these problem, the "Average Joe" trader cannot (please reference Timbo's posts for examples). In terms of what you were speaking to austinp, while your points where all valid, the best information usually doesn't hit the books, seeing as how everything in this culture is perceived as being extremely competitive, most folks have ZERO interest in giving away their edge(s). However they [books] are useful for building a base to work from, and as far as the other information that you were referring to, well now, the information highway is probably one of the best creations of man since the wheel came into existence. *** These interviews are given by traders willing to share some insight into their background, thinking processes and approach to trading, what a refreshing break to ET content from the flaming, vendoring and Hersehy bashing. Good trading, Jimmy Jam
You mention the lack of knowledge. 1) I see no knowledge addsed on your part 2) I see no specifics on what part of this thread you questioned. So, what's your point? Whining is valueless.
Quote from austinp: <i>"Books are an excellent way to get grounded in the fundamentals of trading.... <snip> <b>I do not recommend any particular books outside the ones recommended by others.</b> I would recommend sticking with the highly rated ones. I have read the Market Wizards and Fundamental Analysis & Technical Analysis by Schwager for example. But in all, I have read over 100 books. I also regularly read TASC, Futures & Active Trader mags. In addition to the Books link at ET, I recommend Amazon.com. For one thing, there are used books available that are often cheaper for people wanting to build a personal library. </i> OK... how many times must we read the same rehashed b.s. in ET? Someone comes in here, spouts off about how everything needed to know on trading is available in books AND THEN immediately steps on their dick by backing off any specific titles. Don't throw out the "it's all right there in books" because it ain't. Try reading before giving an opinion. Your response does not particularly reflect what I said. That's one of the biggest lies. If I'm wrong, go ahead and name which book(s) tutor the following: #1: How to specifically read a tape = chart thru all market conditions. How to tell whether price action is likely to break up, down or remain sideways at any moment in time. Would that info be helpful to traders? It does exist. Which book(s) teach that? Please name the title(s) #2: Where to find multiple points of entry in the same price swing (unlike loser - flunky mechanical systems with only one possible entry point, make or miss) Analytical engineer types view trading as an entry signal being one exact spot on a chart. In reality, the same directional price swing almost always has several valid entry points along the way. Which book(s) teach that? Please name the title(s) #3: How to tweak a trading approach to fit the individual's personal aspect in all areas, i.e. time constraints, personality, mindset, emotional makeup, etc. Analytical engineer types view trading as only one = two correct ways to succeed, the rest are all invalid. In reality, we can take many specific approaches and branch off dozens of equally effective ways to implement them for trading. Which book(s) teach that? Please name the title(s) <i>And also, more popular trading books have customer reviews posted, as 110 customer reviews for "Trading in the Zone" here:</i> You are welcome to answer all these questions for the readers TITZ book is worthless, absolutely without value to anyone except those with intermediate to advanced trader-level skills who then require some mental = emotional tweaking. That's a rather small niche. For aspiring traders getting started, this book more easily steps them backward several paces as forward. I didn't recommend TITZ. I recommended Amazon, with TiTZ as an example. Again, read before commenting <i>"Oh, yes, the Douglas books are near the top of my list. But I am surprised at your answer, because I view most books as being compendia of hoary old indicators and oscillators that don't work. Of course we could probably all name them! But what do you think a new trader would get out of those hundred-odd books, the good psych books excepted?"</i> I watched an amusing exchange between two of my friends not long ago while working on a barn project here of mine. Friend #1 is a hack carpenter, friend #2 is a general contractor with above-average skillset learned thru experience. Friend #1 was stating his case about how a certain task was impossible due to the barn being out of plumb and out of square in every direction, in addition we didn't have the correct tools. He's the blusterous, highly opinionated one. He also inwardly knows of his ignorance level relative to friend #2. Friend #2 quietly listened to all the drivel, then proceeded to complete the task exactly as he said using tools at hand. Moral of the story? Friend #1 is full of number two. Or, a poor (ignorant) carpenter ALWAYS BLAMES THE TOOLS. Or someone who jumps into an ET interview, doesn't bother reading the posts carefully, and mistates a lot of things so they can grumble and act as if they are more intelligent. The better moral is, engage brain before speaking, because it leaves you looking rather odd. Please remember that fact the next time someone denigrates TA and indicators as useless. You are listening to an inferior skill-set trader describe their incredible lack of knowledge. [/B][/QUOTE] Great. Then you are prepared to show definitive proof that TA does have statistically valid, strong outperformance over a long period over a large number of instruments in a large number of market structures, that will hold up to industry and academic scrutiny? Because most TA studies have shown the opposite. Otherwise, whatever.
<i>"Or someone who jumps into an ET interview, doesn't bother reading the posts carefully, and mistates a lot of things so they can grumble and act as if they are more intelligent."</i> I read every word. Winnowing down the endless drivel, you pretty much state TA is worthless, books contain the basic education for traders, although you fail to give one specific example of a valid book. Worse than that, by your own words you offered Amazon.com itself as a place to start. That's really narrowing things down to a sharpened pencil, for sure. <i>Great. Then you are prepared to show definitive proof that TA does have statistically valid, strong outperformance over a long period over a large number of instruments in a large number of market structures, <u>that will hold up to industry and academic scrutiny</u>? Because most TA studies have shown the opposite.</i> Underlined is exactly why you are not a successful full-time trader. You base merit or lack thereof on rigid, defined, black & white studies like trading can be examined in a petri dish. This ain't no lab study... trading is a skilled profession where we work with endless sets of variables and damn few constants. Your mindset functions very well for computer engineering. Your mindset likewise remains your biggest albatross for maximizing your own trading success. <i>"I am not an active day trader. I am not particularly fond of staring at multiple screens all day. Some people get off on this, and that is fine."</i> That pretty much sums it up for us Thank you for that. If/when you reach the stage of trader's evolution where you can consistently <b>average</b> +4pts ES per contract in an hour or two of trading, you'll enjoy staring at multiple screens a whole lot more. It sure beats the hell out of working 8 hours per day doing anything else
OK, I am sure that was fun for all the insomniacs. I was out cold from drinking up and eating Friday's profits. So I have a new rule. Every fucker who comes in here and messes up an interview gets interviewed HIMSELF. So your PM demurrer is now null and void, JJ! You're next. Then YOU, AustiP! To Rcanfiel, I reiterate my question.
TA will not always show strong outperformance over a long period and shouldn't be used that way. TA has worked best for me when I apply it's simplest teachings (breakouts and breakdowns) in my trading of Penny Stocks at unique moments of time. If a stock is making an intraday, weekly, monthly, yearly, 3-year, 5-year and an all-time high, you can't tell me that at that point there are going to be an equal number of buyers and sellers. No, since we've all been schooled (most of us) in TA, there are far more buyers than sellers and the price will reflect this wave of momentum. Each Penny Stock is different, but you've got a good 25 cents-$1 of upside before the sellers know what hit them.
Quote from austinp: <i>"Or someone who jumps into an ET interview, doesn't bother reading the posts carefully, and mistates a lot of things so they can grumble and act as if they are more intelligent."</i> I read every word. Winnowing down the endless drivel, you pretty much state TA is worthless, books contain the basic education for traders, although you fail to give one specific example of a valid book. Worse than that, by your own words you offered Amazon.com itself as a place to start. That's really narrowing things down to a sharpened pencil, for sure. Funny, I didn't see you offering a valid book. And you still did not understand. I offered Amazon as a place where people can find good prices and customer reviews of books they might be interested in. <i>Great. Then you are prepared to show definitive proof that TA does have statistically valid, strong outperformance over a long period over a large number of instruments in a large number of market structures, <u>that will hold up to industry and academic scrutiny</u>? Because most TA studies have shown the opposite.</i> Underlined is exactly why you are not a successful full-time trader. You base merit or lack thereof on rigid, defined, black & white studies like trading can be examined in a petri dish. This ain't no lab study... trading is a skilled profession where we work with endless sets of variables and damn few constants. Your mindset functions very well for computer engineering. Your mindset likewise remains your biggest albatross for maximizing your own trading success. You avoided the request. And to use your method, therefore, you are more than happy to use things that have been tested as basically worthless under intense scrutiny, because it magically suddenly works for others in the real world. <i>"I am not an active day trader. I am not particularly fond of staring at multiple screens all day. Some people get off on this, and that is fine."</i> That pretty much sums it up for us Thank you for that. If/when you reach the stage of trader's evolution where you can consistently <b>average</b> +4pts ES per contract in an hour or two of trading, you'll enjoy staring at multiple screens a whole lot more. And that pretty much sums it up for you - when you can go onto collective2.com or Timertrac.com or StrategyRunner.com and demonstrate that YOU can do this, then I will take you seriously. Otherwise, you are just venting. It sure beats the hell out of working 8 hours per day doing anything else Not for the 95% or so who lose while trying to trade leveraged products IF your next post is of similar content to this, I am done replying to them.
Why thanks austinp, I do consider that to be a compliment! Speaking of books, I also recommend: Trading to Win by Ari Kiev Very very heavy on the psychological and and discpline aspects of trading (plus reading about other traders is always interesting). There how's that for support, rcanfiel? Good trading, JJ