Radical Constructivism

Discussion in 'Psychology' started by Babak, Oct 1, 2005.

  1. Babak


    After seeing a video of Dr. Ari Kiev giving a speech , I forwarded it to my brother and asked him what he thought about it.

    He's a hypnotherapist who uses nlp, Ericksonian therapy and brief therapy to do some amazing things for his patients. I assumed he would write back some sort of critique. Instead I was bowled over when he was simply gushing and telling me to read 'every book' Dr. Kiev has written and how this was 'awsome'.

    I was intrigued because seldom does he get excited about something this much and when I asked him why he was so won over, he wrote back:

    1. The stuff he is talking about is backed by many studies.
    2. This guy has worked with top athletes. Remember Olympic athletes are already exceptional people. Whoever works with top performers will learn from them also.
    3. I know what he says can work because I did it myself. Remember I told you that several years ago I wrote down year by year the amount of money that I would be earning up until 2020. When I wrote it four years ago, my conscious mind had no clue how I was going to make so much money and was also incredulous. However I stuck to my "unrealistic" and "utopic" prediction. So far I have exceeded the amount. Every year. So I'm excited and almost fearful because what I wrote as my financial goal for 2020 is astronomical!

    Dr. Kiev says to set a goal and visualize it. What he says sounds crazy because you know that the market is unpredictable and nobody can ride this "crazy horse". Dr. Kiev says imagine you have the skills to tame the horse and the ability to manage when the animal behaves a bit weird. What Dr. Kiev is saying is what Radical Constructivism says: "You cannot predict the future. You can only create it."

    I love the last two sentences btw.

    So here's my question to you, are you actually doing what Dr. Kiev outlines? if not, why not? if yes, how have you fared?

    I also want to throw down the gauntlet and ask who here is willing to actually try this?
  2. jem


    If I were in possesion of a trading plan that could make 100% a year with a steady equity curve I would be happy to visulize my goals.

    Visualization helps in all sorts of tasks.
    Here is an scenario.

    As a kid I remember Billie Jean King stating she pictured herself winning at Wimbledon. When she got there she had rehearsed the pressure saw herself as champion and played better than she would have.

    I recently started playing competitive tennis again after 15 years of lay off. I needed to acquire a modern forehand and backhand.

    I went on the net and reviewed the prettiest backhand in tennis. Henin Hardenne's. On good days now I hit backhands that have some of the pros at my club (who worked at bolletieri's) commenting on my backhand.

    But, I had the foundation left over from when I played serious tennis when I was younger.

    I know with practice and time and visualization I can hit tremdous ground strokes. I also visualized myself running around being fit. I have lost a great deal of weight. But I also know I am too old to be circuit player nor is that my goal. But if I had my current backhand back then I might have done what I desired to do.

    Now take this to trading. I was once a very good and very consistent day trader.

    I now would like to be a great postion trader. One tiny problem --I do not have a trading plan that is projected to make 100% a year with a smooth equity curve.

    Got one?

    If you do I can do the visulization with the best of them.
  3. Babak


    jem, I understand what you're saying and you're right. You need a plan and strategy before you can put it into action.

    Yet here the techniques of RC are also relevant. For example, you can put it to your subconscious mind that you will find the plan/strategy needed. Pretend that you've already found it and ask yourself, what did I need to do? who did I talk to? what did I need to read? test? analyze? etc. Visualize doing those things, and going through the process. Then see yourself with the plan/strategy (whatever it may be), etc. IOW imagine having already achieved the intended goal then visualize yourself at various stages doing what was needed to get there.

    Basically, your mind is like a heat seeking missile. Give it a target of your choosing and it will astound you.
  4. Babak,

    This is a very interesting finding. I would like to know about bit more about what your brother does.

    Does Hypnotherapy actually induce radical change in one's consciousness? Can one's emotional makeup be transformed by a skilled practicioner?

    What kind of extraoridnary cases has he been witness to in his patients?

    Have you ever worked with him with regards to your mental edge in trading?


  5. Babak


    Examples? He can remove phobias in a very short amt of time. Same goes for smoking cessation. There was a guy who was a gonner because he had cancer and eventhough he was going through extensive and painful therapy, he just couldn't stop. The man's doctor referred him as a last resort - he's still alive now and a non-smoker. A few years back a journalist (heavy LT smoker) went undercover to 'expose' him as a huckster by posing as a smoker who wanted to quit. He ended up having to force himself to start smoking again by sheer will power over a gruelling week. The guy ended up getting a different scoop than he imagined and wrote a sheepish article about his ordeal.

    So does that qualify as radical change in one's consciousness? I suppose it might. He doesn't do anything that you can't do on your own, he is just there to guide you and help you tap into your own potential. Its a sort of organic technology the way silicon microchips or wi-fi are digital technologies. Think of it like changing the hardwiring in your brain. Most people are not even aware that such 'hardwiring' even exists or that they can have a role in shaping and changing it.

    Eventhough I have seen him re my trading, I think our personal relationship gets in the way of any sort of patient/therapist dynamic. Nevertheless I'm constantly learning from him and getting exposed to amazing concepts like RC. I'm biased ofcourse, but he is one hell of a hypnotherapist. And he's a happily married family man, otherwise he'd be the biggest, baddest PUA you'd ever seen.

    This is a digression though, I'd like the thread to get back to the question I posed earlier.

  6. Interesting topic.

    Unless I'm mistaken, Radical Constructivism is actually a branch of epistemology rather than psychology -- a somewhat dry philosophical theory of knowledge.

    Could be wrong, but it seems what Kiev is talking about is more like Peale's "power of positive thinking," or Hill's "what the mind can conceive, the will can achieve," or Thoreau's "go confidently in the direction of your dreams."

    ...Of course, abstract philosophy has a lot more cachet than tired self-help phrases. But it's still an interesting topic :D

    A few thoughts:

    Dreaming is fun because you can dream anything you want. But realistic dreaming requires critical thinking, because you have to master 'the art of the possible.'

    Setting your goals incredibly high is great, but realistic dreaming means applying your critical thinking skills to affirm a reasonable possibility of achieving those goals.

    When Kiev worked with olympic athletes, he was undoubtedly focused on the art of the possible. Can you imagine an olympic sprinter psyching himself up to run a one second hundred yard dash? That wouldn't make any sense.

    This is where Kiev's stuff gets lost in translation. Many would be traders don't have enough grounding to know what is possible and what's not. So they set goals far beyond the scope of current reality, or they expect to make up for a lack of experience and training with nothing but enthusiasm.

    In the world of the professional athlete, Kiev doesn't have to ask his clients if they know what level of performance is possible. He doesn't have to ask them if they have had the proper training and experience. He doesn't have to supply the motivation. That's all taken care of.

    For the average joe, though, none of that can be taken for granted. Mastering the art of the possible requires critical thinking skills that many have not developed adequately... and a lack of critical thinking skills makes one even more susceptible to false optimism in the first place.

    Of course, the art of the possible includes amazing outcomes. Can a guy make a million dollars trading? Certainly. Can he make $10 million or $50 million or $100 million if truly he sets his mind to it?
    Given the tools and the circumstances and the dedication, why not?

    The art of the possible can lead to truly extraordinary results, if one is truly aligned with the goal and willing to do whatever it takes to reach it. When you truly want something on all levels, and you don't have any internal conflicts or hangups preventing full pursuit, your conscious and subconscious mind brings extraordinary powers to bear. You start moving towards your goal in hundreds of barely perceptible ways every single day. Internal alignment piles hundreds of small edges on top of each other, compounding them over time, and gives you the stamina you need to slog or fight your way through all barriers and setbacks.

    But that leads to another common problem: most people don't know what they want, and so their conscious goals get shipwrecked on hidden internal conflicts. No internal alignment. A lot of people set superficial goals without realizing the 'goal' isn't their ultimate desire at all... it's just a symbol or a stand-in for something else. Or else they soon realize that they actually wanted the payoff without the hard work, and find an excuse to quit.

    The world eats dreams for breakfast. The harsh nature of reality will either polish your plan into a diamond or grind it into dust. I'm skeptical of guys like Kiev because they tend to leave that part out.

    On the bright side though, I really like what Tim O' Reilly's mentor George Simon said: "To know where the path leads means to be able to go there."
  7. Babak


    It is, but it has vast implications which reach into other fields, including psychology. See Watzlawick (Palo Alto brief therapy).
  8. Amnesiac


    Radical contructivism has a very big logical problem.

    It denies the possibilty of having access to reality, as this is only "constructed" by human perception.

    But how can you know/realize that there is no access to reality, if you don't have this access?
  9. [​IMG]
    #10     Oct 2, 2005