Quitting day job to collect weekly premiums - realistic?

Discussion in 'Options' started by mdwreader, Dec 25, 2016.

  1. #21     Dec 25, 2016
  2. Thanks this is right on. I think I get it now; in the worst case scenario it would be something like I get assigned, the SEC announces the company is under some accounting fraud, forced to sell the stock at a huge loss. Diversification would do away some risks on this but yes the loss would wipe out alot of gains.

    I actually have been doing covered calls before this and to answer your scenario, I short 110 again. I know I get peanuts, but its basically turning into a buy and hold on this big blue chip. This actually just happened to me in Oct, with the FANG stocks. I bought before Trump's victory and you guys all know what happened to the FANG stocks. I stuck it out and just kept selling even though its very little. Now look at their prices. Only FB is still doing terrible.
     
    #22     Dec 25, 2016
  3. Pekelo

    Pekelo

    The point with the Enron example was that it went into bankruptcy in an orderly fashion, taking its sweet time so one could have written plenty of calls on that.

    So let's say you diversify into 5 stocks, 3 of them do 10-10% return, 1 breakeven and 1 goes bankrupt like Enron. If the premiums make back at least half of the loss on Enron, your overall diversified performance loss is only -4%. Not bad counting you picked a bankrupt loser in the group.
     
    #23     Dec 25, 2016
  4. sle

    sle

    You worst case scenario is either an overnight scandal (e.g. VRX-style) or, even worse, a correlated market drop due to some macro-news. Not an impossible scenario. This said, if you pick rich vol, diversify and control the overall exposure there is no reason why this would not work. Personally, I'd be looking to sell event vol in a highly diversified manner, e.g. earning announcements, various clinical trials etc - you still might get carried out on some of the events, but it's uncorrelated risk premium.

    PS. I think 15% is pretty aggressive, but 10% per year is not that horrible either.
     
    #24     Dec 25, 2016
    Brighton likes this.
  5. ironchef

    ironchef

    I don't think OP understands what you said yet. After a long time, I finally figured that out thanks to you guys.
     
    #25     Dec 25, 2016
  6. ironchef

    ironchef

    Why go through the headache of trading if I can get ~10% just holding RUT long term?
     
    #26     Dec 25, 2016
  7. ironchef

    ironchef

    You gave me some coaching in a different thread regarding selling cash secured put then if assigned selling covered calls. You mentioned that under one scenario things could go bad: in a whipsaw(?) market.

    I think you were right. Manage carefully this can be a profitable strategy. One trader I know used this strategy with just one stock and he did very well since the mid 2000. But he did not do it mechanically. A lot of thoughts and analysis went into his trades.
     
    #27     Dec 25, 2016

  8. Did he drop from 2 million to 1 million? Im not following the second sentence.

    Thanks
     
    #28     Dec 25, 2016
  9. tommcginnis

    tommcginnis

    Poor (over-quick) writing on my part.

    As a matter of fact, he *did* take quite a bath in his first year of "active" trading. Made some coin, got cocky, lost half of his account *while* leveraged to the hilt with margin calls.

    Buckled down, pounded his fist glumly with "It'll take me 2 years easy to make this back!" And got about it. I forget the dates and times now, but either 1 year or 2 years in, he had repaid all his (crisis-induced) bank notes, and was 80k ahead.

    Became a religious tyrant, and wails fire *and* brimstone upon me, whenever I tarry from the True & Righteous Trading Path. (In his opinion.)

    Some times, he is insufferable. But there is a phrase I had burned into my mind early on, that I have shared with him, and that he *sometimes* makes good use of:

    "Never mistake your account balance for intelligence."

    When either of us do that, we also sometimes revert to an ancient piece of wisdom, by waving our arms pendulously around our crotch, and in a low, low voice, singing,
    "Swingggg lowwwwwww, sweet charrrrrr -i-otttttt......"


    Oh yeah! So.....
    So yeah, he took a 6-figure hit, brought it back, kept going, and is now kissing a 7-figure account like a blushing bride. Given the ups and downs of things, it certainly won't be 2016 (I would've heard), but 50|50 between 2017 and 2018. (Barring he doesn't continue moves like holding TSLA short calls @212.50, and watching them spike ITM last week. Sheeesh.)

    And this guy thinks *I'm* scary, wit' me litt'l SPX harvests every few days. Yeahhh-hhhhhh.

    And just to flesh it out a bit more, he was a pretty involved fundamentals-oriented, dividend-hunting, *investor* when we started talking markets a good....10-15 years ago. And a econ business school grad. No flash-in-the-pan, but a hard working guy.

    And a hasher.

    On-out.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2016
    #29     Dec 25, 2016
  10. Robert Morse

    Robert Morse Sponsor

    I sent you a PM. I would stick with Cash settled index options and choose a CTA or hedge fund that does this professionally. I would also suggest not to use all $800K this way. Too risky. I have a few clients that are doing this.
     
    #30     Dec 25, 2016
    Chubbly, comagnum and tommcginnis like this.