Questions on ZB Mar 17 Futures

Discussion in 'Financial Futures' started by cutetrader, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. Maverick74

    Maverick74

    #11     Feb 9, 2017
  2. #12     Feb 9, 2017
  3. Maverick74

    Maverick74

    The deliverable bonds (CTD) for UB have longer duration then the deliverables for ZB.
     
    #13     Feb 9, 2017
  4. thanks Maverick74
    Just did my first trade today (short) and made around 120 bucks.
    This ZB is very volatile like you said makes a drastic moves some times for no reason though.
     
    #14     Feb 9, 2017
  5. coolraz

    coolraz

    Maverick, noob question here. I only keep a small amount in TLT because I use most of my margin running other strategies. However, looking at the margin requirements for long TLT, short UB, it looks like you can use about 15:1 leverage. Assuming the correlation between TLT and UB does not get out of whack, that's about 30% return on capital. What am I missing?
    I do understand that UB futures are in backwardation so if you're short UB you'll have to roll to a lower price contract when the current one expires. But if that contract then moves at the same ratio to TLT as the previous contract did you're still equally hedged. Since there's no free money out there....I know I'm missing something. What is it?
     
    #15     Feb 9, 2017
  6. Maverick74

    Maverick74

    UB and TLT are not duration neutral. You have to match the durations. If they are not weighted properly then they will not respond the same to a given move in interest rates.
     
    #16     Feb 9, 2017
    coolraz likes this.
  7. coolraz

    coolraz

    I understand the deliverables are not the same, the UB future has a specific forumla for the deliverables while TLT just buys a bunch of bonds and holds them as long as they fit the requirement of being 20+.
    What IS interesting to me though, is that despite the duration issue, they DO seem to move in tandem almost all the time. Just take the ratio of the UB contract during its life and see what it does relative to TLT and it does appear they move by the same ratio. Granted it does vary a little bit but hovering around 1.345 or so

    upload_2017-2-9_22-31-27.png
     
    #17     Feb 9, 2017
  8. Maverick74

    Maverick74

    Remember TLT pays a 2.56% annual dividend. That comes out monthly I believe. The futures price the coupons into the forward. Yes, they will generally move in the same direction.
     
    #18     Feb 9, 2017
  9. #19     Feb 10, 2017
    cutetrader likes this.