Questions about NYSE

Discussion in 'Trading' started by trader_XX, Jun 7, 2006.

  1. It is a fact that NYSE publishes deceptive quotes. It is a fact that when you try to hit a NYSE bid or ask, you will often be denied an execution, because the displayed bid or ask has already been filled and become unavailable, and the displayed quote is actually stale. The display of NYSE stale quotes misleads people into routing their orders to NYSE, when in fact, the best price is often available elsewhere. The display of NYSE stale quotes also misleads people into trading at times and at prices which they would not choose if up to date quotes were displayed. The most important problem, with NYSE stale quotes, is that they have, for many years, operated thru the trade-thru rule to block executions from occurring at other market centers, at prices inferior to the stale quotes, but superior to the true price which you actually get by routing to NYSE. The new Regulation NMS will solve the trade-thru part of this problem when it becomes effective in the near future.

    NX does not solve these problems because NX, very simply, is often unavailable, so that the order you attempt to NX is instead routed to the specialist for manual "handling".

    Some of the more unreasonable comments in this thread ignore the simple fact that NYSE specialists have a long regulatory track record of systematically breaking NYSE rules, and that NYSE disciplinary officials have a long regulatory track record of systematically failing to enforce NYSE rules and of colluding with specialists to help them to break NYSE rules. It is silly to defend NYSE with arguments based on the false assumption that NYSE rules are actually followed or enforced.

    It is also a fact that NYSE rules allow floor traders to step in front of public customer limit orders, without quoting a better price than the public customer limit orders. Public customer limit orders, on the NYSE specialist limit order book, do compete on a price-time priority basis with each other, but floor brokers do not compete with the book on a price-time basis. A complex set of NYSE rules allow floor brokers to trade in front of the book in many situations. Floor brokers will tend to let you get an execution most readily at the times when the market is moving against you, so that you will regret getting filled. If the market is moving in favor of your direction, then floor brokers will be more likely to step in front of your order, so that you often won't get executed at those times when an execution would be most desirable.

    It amazes me how doggedly the NYSE defenders try to sell NYSE as a bunch of choirboys. Maybe they need a reminder of the solid facts proving that NYSE is fundamentally corrupt.

    See my next post.
     
    #31     Jun 9, 2006
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    #32     Jun 9, 2006
  3. well i'm personally kind of looking forward to calling in every single instance and starting a record of calls on the 2 guys i deal with. i have a feeling if they see that i'm willing to do it every single time, it will probably cease fairly quickly because otherwise they'd be racking up at least 2-5 complaints each per day

    nothing vindictive, just want to trade at the prices they quote. even with calls though, they still kind of have you since in many/most instances taking the hit is worth more than sitting on the phone for 10 mins on the high probability of not getting the fill
     
    #33     Jun 9, 2006
  4. Don't be so optimistic. NYSE rules allow for the manual updating of quotes, instead of automatic updating. Manual updating is inevitably slow and causes stale, untradeable quotes to be displayed. Nothing about this violates NYSE rules. Nothing about this provides any basis for disciplinary action against a specialist. Your difficulties with hitting stale NYSE quotes will never end, as long as NYSE rules permit the display of stale quotes.
     
    #34     Jun 9, 2006
  5. lfkc60a

    lfkc60a

    You seem to know about everything, including how many shares I trade. Well after this comment last night I went back to review my activity since the early 90's. Since my first trade in '93 I have traded just under 900 Million shares on the NYSE, so I think I know what I am talking about as far as the fills go. If you traded more than that, good for you, but I doubt it because you would have more of a clue about this matter. This list I showed for reasons the specialist does not have to honor the AutoEx, was to show that he HAS THE ABILITY to DEACTIVATE it when he wants.

    As fas as calling to complain, This is what would happen.

    1. You try to AutoEx a 1000 bid at 50. He holds your ticket anyway.

    2. Now you are the offer, you can - A. Change your order and go on your way. B. Try and complain.

    3. If you complain, in the meantime, you CANNOT cancel or change that order or else the Complaint can not be acted upon.

    4. So not you leave you 50 offer out there. During that time 2 things can happen A. The stock goes back up and trades 50 again, and the problem is solved. or B. the stock goes lower and you are still at 50. If you are lucky someone will get back to you in only a hour.

    5. Maybe 10-20% of the time you might get the fill, in that case you get the 50, The other 80-90% they have some excuse. In this case you risk losing a hour worth of downside.

    The risk/ reward in no way favors complaining over this, thats why the specialist abuse it, and it is hardly ever reported.
     
    #35     Jun 9, 2006
  6. Don't forget the 5-cent rule.

    If auto-ex of your order would result in an execution more than 5 cents away from the previous NYSE trade price, then auto-ex will not allow you to receive an automatic execution, and it will instead route your order to the specialist for manual "handling", which will involve all the delays, costs, and risks which we are trying to avoid by seeking auto-ex.

    This 5-cent rule is part of NYSE Rule 1000. I figure it must have been added as an amendment at some point, probably after the last time you read the rule, so this is why you omitted it from your list of obstacles to auto-ex.

    I analyzed the effect of the 5-cent rule throughout one particular day of trading in the security SPY. I found, on that particular day, that the 5-cent rule disabled NYSE auto-ex throughout small time intervals totalling approximately 10 ten percent of the trading day, but that these small time intervals were the times when traders most wanted or needed to trade so that much or most trading occurred during those times, so that roughly half of the day's volume executed while auto-ex was disabled by the 5-cent rule. So it appears that auto-ex is available when it isn't needed very mcuh, but when it is most needed, it is not available, regardless of whether there are others willing to take the other side of your trade.

    My calculations only measured the effect of the 5-cent rule. I did not even attempt to determine how much of the day's clock time and trading volume was covered by unavailability of auto-ex caused by obstacles OTHER than the 5-cent rule (for example, 100 share quotes, better prices available in the ITS, etc., etc.).
     
    #36     Jun 9, 2006
  7. Maverick74

    Maverick74

    I think you are a mook. That's my honest assesment of you. No one bitches as much about fills as a mook. You are a mook.

    Sorry, I don't trade listed stocks anymore. I haven't since 2002. Sorry if I don't stay up to date on every freaking amendment to the rules. I seriously doubt you are a good trader and I seriously doubt you read the tape. I never had an issue with fills. And when guys in our group did, yes, they called.

    You shouldn't f*cking wait to hit a bid when the buyer is gone. No way you have been trading successfully since 1993 if you don't know that. I hit bids. I take out the buyer. I'm not trying to sell in a panic to the specialist. There is a reason why you read the tape. Mooks always wait too long. The buyer is gone they go to sell and then they complain about fills.

    Anyway, I've wasted enough time on you. Have a good weekend.
     
    #37     Jun 9, 2006
  8. I find Maverick74's name-calling to be, at best, unpersuasive.
     
    #38     Jun 9, 2006
  9. Maverick74

    Maverick74

    A mook is the correct term to be used here. I'm sorry, there is not a better word for it. It is what it is.
     
    #39     Jun 9, 2006
  10. Common you guys... you gotta be kidding me...

    Even if you trade nasdaq... your limit orders usually get filled when the market is going against you... and I know there ain´t any fron running in the ECN´s... I constantly check the island book to see my position on the queue.

    I´ve also traded NYSE for some time... and I have plenty of students trading NYSE full time... I´ve never noticed anything unusual about the excecution... except that the open book can be a bit slow... but in fast markets I just use ecn´s to route my orders.
     
    #40     Jun 10, 2006