Question about trading emini's as a career

Went Fishing · Mar 30, 2011

Quote from Handle123:
It started as a hobby and developed into so much more. It took me an insane amount of time to learn to day trade cause I was stubborn and lazy.
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This is a great post,

+ bajillion, bazillion, dillion, fantillion, gadzillion, gagillion, gajillion, godzillion, grillion, hojillion, kabillion, kajillion, katrillion, killion, robillion, skillion, squillion, and umptillion

southbeach4me · Mar 30, 2011

Quote from eudaemon:

Nearly 100% false.
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I second that motion, since all markets are basically driven by the mechanics of fear and greed, especiallly in markets like forex where price loves to bounce off daily S&R levels. Its not that hard, IF you know what to look for...

Anyone who thinks the market is mostly random is a person who lacks the skills to know how to read/analyze the market.

southbeach4me · Mar 30, 2011

Quote from Mercor:

best advice to make profit.

Encourage more people to trade and hope they fall into the 90% fail group
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Thats a careless & unethical thing to say.

cvds16 · Mar 30, 2011

yes, it can be done, I am in a chatroom with several succesfull traders, we each have our own way of trading, so we don't copy each other. Some of them are doing really big size. You got to find your own way though, that will take years of spending a dedicated 10 hours in front of a screen. Anybody telling you this can be done in six to 12 months doesn't know what he is talking about. Then hopefully you start to catch on ...
I don't believe in sim-trading, only real money gives you the emotions of real trading, but trade with a fx with a nano-account is my advice; e-minis are too big a size for most to start with. Consistancy is key.

Neenisti · Mar 30, 2011

Quote from Handle123:

It started as a hobby and developed into so much more. It took me an insane amount of time to learn to day trade cause I was stubborn and lazy. The smarter you think you are, the longer it will take, markets don't care if you are smart or dumber than a bag of rocks, if you don't backtest over several years of data and forward test over several months of data, it will be tough to have confidence within you to succeed. So for starters, you have to learn how to code, you have to buy data, and you have to start testing ideas.

Each Index has a different personality, ES is mainly congestive and by far the toughest to learn, it is mainly biggest hedging instrument, might have 2 good trends in a day. But it is an incredible market to trade if you are highly experienced, great volume, reoccurring patterns for counter-trend. Dow and Russell tend to trend easier, but expect slippage, volume much lower. And Nasdaq is a more forgiving market, you can generally cover a mistake if quick enough.

But day trading is not simple to learn, those who generally can't trade-teach, why would anyone wish to teach you for a crummy $5,000 when experienced traders profit that much and more most days. Occasionally good traders will mentor for free, but find one willing to spend at least a year with you, and you can expect you will hear from time to time your mentor pissed off, teaching others real time, explaining concept to young traders, I have often missed out on great trades. But there will be other trades.

Too many think reading a couple books, do a couple weeks of backtesting manually will be ok, open and account, and 50% is lost in a week. Except for Price, everything else is an indicator, Price Action, moving averages, oscillators, volume, trendlines. Some will say you need an "edge," not much better than a well backtested method over several years of data that fits your personality.

Only need 1-2 entry methods, then concentrate on at least 30 money management rules. And you can expect to "tweak" your method as time goes by, you gain experience or changes in volatility or lack of. But one of the biggest problems of programming ideas, is becoming a lost art of understanding the market and why price does what it does. Those who never "penciled" into chartbooks can't see the charts as one who first learned how to trade manually. Before home PC's came out, I had graph paper, and learned charting by doing. I think far more traders would do better if they could explain why price is doing what it is doing. Not talking about Price is going up cause one moving average crossed another or cause price broke above some trendline cause this is what is found in books, everyone reads them and 99% lose.

There are so so so many nuances to learn about day trading, if I was a newbie, I would wish someone would talk me out of it. Much Better reward to risk is achieved using weekly bars.

Going back to your question:
1) Yes, expect years at learning first.
2) Don't try to put so much pressure on you in terms of percentages. It is easier to go from $5k to 50k, than 100k to 1M, gets much tougher to trade size, and in some markets, slippage can be brutal when doing size.
3) Absolutely, but don't expect it for several years.

End of April will be 25 years of day trading for me and I am retiring from it. Just plain tired of it, want to concentrate much more on where the sustained profits are and much less time is needed, long term and spreads.

Wish you all the best.
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If there were an EliteTrader Post Hall of Fame . . . I nominate this one!!!

etile · Mar 30, 2011

Quote from southbeach4me:

Thats a careless & unethical thing to say.
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This is a discussion in speculation in zero-sum futures is it not?

trendo · Mar 31, 2011

Quote from Handle123:

Only need 1-2 entry methods, then concentrate on at least 30 money management rules.

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At least 30 money management rules for day trading? That's a whole lotta rules. Could you elaborate on what your rules are?

Thanks and a happy retirement to you!