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Quant?

Discussion in 'Professional Trading' started by rateesquad, Jul 1, 2007.

dhpar
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jack hershey,

(on a technical note) before you start to advice on quant matters please learn how to post on an internet board. It is very annoying to open attachments and does not show much respect to others.

Secondly (and more seriously). You are the only one on this thread not giving straight (and helpful) answers to OP. In fact you talk only about yourself - how old you are and therefore how great you must be - WTF. Seriously - who gives a shit - set up a thread for you memoirs. By the way the paper you posted really suggests you may be on drugs or something similar.
From your posts it is also clear that you unlikely know much about quants. Quants are almost exclusively breed in investment banks with a minority going out of school directly to funds. Did you ever work for one of top 5 IBs? For how many years that you can advice on how quants are hired? How many quants have you hired there yourself?
You say: "Look at quants and what they do. They predict and bet on the prediction. there is risk involves as I see it." WRONG - majority of quants never predict anything. Majority of quants are in derivatives.

One thing I know - people of your age (and older) have usually much better class of communicating their success - in fact they do not feel they need to do it in the first place.
When you started to talk about nitro and how he blew his account I lost my patience - you are a lowlife.

#71 Jul 7, 2007

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jack hershey
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Quote from dhpar:

jack hershey,

(on a technical note) before you start to advice on quant matters please learn how to post on an internet board. It is very annoying to open attachments and does not show much respect to others.

Secondly (and more seriously). You are the only one on this thread not giving straight (and helpful) answers to OP. In fact you talk only about yourself - how old you are and therefore how great you must be - WTF. Seriously - who gives a shit - set up a thread for you memoirs. By the way the paper you posted really suggests you may be on drugs or something similar.
From your posts it is also clear that you unlikely know much about quants. Quants are almost exclusively breed in investment banks with a minority going out of school directly to funds. Did you ever work for one of top 5 IBs? For how many years that you can advice on how quants are hired? How many quants have you hired there yourself?
You say: "Look at quants and what they do. They predict and bet on the prediction. there is risk involves as I see it." WRONG - majority of quants never predict anything. Majority of quants are in derivatives.

One thing I know - people of your age (and older) have usually much better class of communicating their success - in fact they do not feel they need to do it in the first place.
When you started to talk about nitro and how he blew his account I lost my patience - you are a lowlife.
More...

See attached.
- thanks for your insightful response quant guy.doc
  
  File size:
  
  29 KB
  
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  218
#72 Jul 7, 2007

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dhpar
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Quote from jack hershey:

See attached.
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Some good questions where answering may help to OP as well. Unfortunately I am out on yacht for the next two days so I can answer only when I get back - sorry about that.

One thing I see straight away - our wires may have got crossed with respect to how we use the word "prediction". You seem to use the verb "to predict" in similar way as "to forecast", i.e. to tell where the price is going to be in future (up/down/level) and bet money on it. In this meaning a typical quant does not predict. That's a work for analyst, research and most importantly for a trader.

However quant predicts where the price should be as of now based on an expected behavior of his model. He then recalibrates either the whole model or the model's inputs to observable market prices (if available). Then the trader (may) use this model to decide on hedging for the next time step.
Of course quant is also able to forecast where the price is going to be given the set of parameters but that is trivial - it would be similar to forecasting value of your book tomorrow when you are told tomorrow's settlement prices. So in the real sense quant (usually) does not forecast.

I will try to explain it better later.
(and disclosure: I left WallStreet some time ago so there may be some fresher insights - I am an independent trader).

#73 Jul 7, 2007

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segv
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Quote from rateesquad:

Hey guys,

I finally find out what I want to do....Quant. I will major in math and investments...yes, double major. And double minor in (Political science and Economics) .

I just wanted to ask anyone w/ some knowledge. How was their experience as being a quant?

Any suggestions? PS I am only a sophomore in college.

Thanks.
More...

Your choice of undergraduate major or double major is going to do very little to help you get a competitive position at an investment bank or hedge fund. Those firms are looking for top candidates from top graduate programs. My advice to you would be to forgo the double major entirely in favor of a single concentration, preferably in mathematics, computer science, economics, or finance. Spend the money you saved on those double major credits on your graduate degree.

-segv

#74 Jul 7, 2007

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jack hershey
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Quote from dhpar:

Some good questions where answering may help to OP as well. Unfortunately I am out on yacht for the next two days so I can answer only when I get back - sorry about that.

One thing I see straight away - our wires may have got crossed with respect to how we use the word "prediction". You seem to use the verb "to predict" in similar way as "to forecast", i.e. to tell where the price is going to be in future (up/down/level) and bet money on it. In this meaning a typical quant does not predict. That's a work for analyst, research and most importantly for a trader.

For me it is true that when I read about the markets and review papers on the financial industry, often I see that predict and forecast are synonyms. The majority of quants are doing other things I hope to be finding out about.

Your view that predicting and/or forecasting is the job of three other groups is noteworthy. I do not list predicting and or forecasting as part of the work of colleagues or workers who do analysis, research or trading.

For making money I am interested in repeatability, reliability, effectiveness, efficiency and optimization all with respect to what the market s are offering.

Traders, I believe, achieve execution results by only giving consideration to the presnt, I call it NOW as well, during RTH's.

traders are equipped to recognize a finite number of possible complete data sets. For each they have a known and documented conclusion (which I call analysis). Analysis is recognizing a data set and pairing it with a concusion form a finite set of possible conclusions.

Trading is a canned process in real time where a stream of conclusions are generated in real time. This is C# programming for automated trading where the trader is a computer under automated running of capital.

The five associated platform signals are all prescribed by the conclusion with which the decision is paired. It is just a series of stacatto actions.

The analysis and research you speak of is not connected to this trading. Before and after RTH, lists are made available for equities that need to be traded. As RTH happens turns are done according to the cycle of price for stocks on the list. when done automatically, there is no trader participation once the list is loaded into the execution platform.

So it tuns out that the present prevails as the time of trading activity. there is no predicting or orecasting since the trading is done as a consequence of just taking data sets and acting accordingly by a prescription that is in place for making money.

However quant predicts where the price should be as of now based on an expected behavior of his model. He then recalibrates either the whole model or the model's inputs to observable market prices (if available).

I see from what you say that a model is operating and it uses data. The model behaves. At NOW it has a value(s) that may or may not differ from the real values in the present.

The quant does work as a consequence.

I will be very interested to see how the behaviour of the model is used by other workers doing other things besides what the quant does. Perhaps how analysts, et al, either singly or as a group, use the knowlege of what the price should be if the price isn't what it should be. Moreso, I would like to know what others do when the price is what it should be.

My orientation is to get the degrees of freedom offerredand use them to generate, ontinually another 70 degrees of freedom. the pertinent subset of binary outputs are monitored, analyzed (pairing), decisions made and actions taken. The pertinent subsets are determined automatically. All of this is, effectively streaming during RTH's. What shows is the present and an historical record is also created, all binary.

Then the trader (may) use this model to decide on hedging for the next time step.

My understanding is that the model output delivered after corrections provides infomation for traders. These traders deal from time step to time step. The corrected model information is used for decision making for the next time step. The trader uses it for hedging in the next time step.

I am not hedging at any time on the other hand and our traders do not do next time step decision making. They only do decisions in the present based upon present market binary data sets. This is the front running concept relative to your traders.

We are parasitic, sentiment oriented, speculators who front run informed traders (subject to the quant adjustment delay) that hedge as a strategy.

Of course quant is also able to forecast where the price is going to be given the set of parameters but that is trivial - it would be similar to forecasting value of your book tomorrow when you are told tomorrow's settlement prices.

I do see value in this activity you describe as trivial. It would not be a good idea to suggest the name first given to our equities paradigm. It just seems that it is natural to use leading indicators of price. As the leading indicator is time stamped and moves into the past, sooner or later, as the future comes into the present, the price condition, circumstance or situation occurs.

We regard this as a major advantage we have for front running the markets.

So in the real sense quant (usually) does not forecast.

So, If I understand you, the quant model is adjusted as required to provide current data (Now or after adjusted) that allows a trader to hedge in his next time step.

Our traders do Now by always bieng in the market; staying on the right side; and trading at the capacity of the market. This is a hold and reverse pool extraction paradigm that uses binary data elements in subsets of a finite set. Reversals in a timely manner keep use on the right side of the market and precipitate periodic pool extractions.

I will try to explain it better later.
(and disclosure: I left WallStreet some time ago so there may be some fresher insights - I am an independent trader).
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Leaning in a formal setting is a key opportunity in a lifetime. This formal learning in a constructive atmosphere is very forwarding. Being at query is an essential component. The OP has a lot of choices. I've seen several teenagers learn to trade and have the blessings of their parents. They had a free ride through college by paying for it out of profits. They were independent traders learning in subject levels of their choice. There were no PC's or copiers back then.

Today's students have it made. They can major in anything they want and become very wealthy as amateur independent traders. Some meet their life time investment goals in their mid twenties in today markets with today's support services.

A couple of young ladies are posting on a two day course they took. One of the topics is using prebreak out signals for being ready to take on a trade. Is there any other way? Well, of course, but why would a person not be using leading indicators of price?

#75 Jul 7, 2007

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trader225
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Quote from jack hershey:

I only do the OPM thing according to NFA 208 part 1. a. My best single day for one family was 1.7 million. It is not much to be able to let under 15 people coattail me but it does make it possible for others to contribute time and a little money to things where they can help out. Each time the SeC has cited me for insider trading they have rescinded their mistakes. My one year record for citations is 5.
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Where is the record of the citations?
These should be public records, no?
OPM? Just paying it forward?

#76 Jul 7, 2007

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sjfan
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This thread was productive and [hopefully] useful before Jack showed up. Now it's just everyone arguing against Jack's very incorrect understanding of quant. I'm done.

#77 Jul 7, 2007

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trader07
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Quote from jtnet:

what does a quant do?

sit around all day and try to dev MA crossover trading systems? and endless combos of other thiings?
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A little more sophisticated, but yes.

#78 Jul 7, 2007

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rateesquad
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Unfortunatly, yes everyone started to discuss jack. Instead of the original intentions.

Although this was probably the most productive thread for me yet. Thanks everyone.

If anyone still has anything to add please add.

Although before this thread is done I am interested in complete review by dhpar, which supposably had contact w/ quants.
Otherwise, everyone did help me a lot, and I mean everyone. Thanks.

#79 Jul 8, 2007

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jack hershey
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Maybe they will do one of these for quants:

http://spotlight.encarta.msn.com/Fe...le_TopBSchoolsforEntrepreneurs.html?GT1=10186

#80 Jul 9, 2007

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