Pure Flat Tax?

Discussion in 'Economics' started by achilles28, Dec 2, 2014.

  1. d08

    d08

    Coming from a flat tax country myself (although with a few exemptions), I tend to think it's generally a good idea.
    However, I'm in support of very low income taxes and higher consumption taxes. This would make it easier for people to build wealth to a point where consumption becomes a lifestyle, for now this is only reserved for the upper-middle and upper classes. I realize this doesn't bode well with the ridiculous notion of the consumer economy as it would curtail wasteful consumption and that my view is rather German when it comes to consumption in general.
     
    #21     Dec 3, 2014
  2. max and the bucket 004.jpg
    Here's another pic.
     
    #22     Dec 3, 2014
    dogbawls, achilles28 and JTrades like this.
  3. A country is like a company with a budget for everything. If run like a company, the government that starts spending will have to stop when their budget is finished. They want to raise their salary or present a well paid job to someone, no problem, they have their budget that's all. This is the only way to stop the constant rise of tax levels. Not only in the US, but also in Europe. All countries spend too much and have huge debts because there is no budget, so they can continue without any limitation.SPend and print money. Total national debts should also be limited to X % of the value of all goods and services produced in the country. Put all this in a constitutional law. And yes a flat rate tax is good. People are not motivated anymore to work if they pay 50% or even more taxes. Taxes that are spent for people who don't want to work but want free money from the government.
     
    #23     Dec 3, 2014
  4. Parasitic subsidies for lazy ne'er-do-wells are a big part of our economy and political culture today.

    100 years ago, they were not. There were no such subsidies, so there were no such parasites.

    Are we better off because of them? I say HELL NO!! We are MUCH worse off.

    :(
     
    #24     Dec 3, 2014
  5. piezoe

    piezoe

    Yes, as I noted, a flat tax is very popular. And not just with the rich, but ordinary middle class folks like the idea too, as you can tell from the comments in this thread. Despite its popular appeal, a flat tax is a disastrous idea, at least as it has been proposed for implementation in the U.S.

    European countries generally tax consumption rather than income, though someone here pointed out that some countries might also impose a very low flat tax on income as well. The devil is always in the details. The flat tax as it has been proposed by various persons running for public office in the U.S. would have disastrous long-range affects on the U.S. economy and its people! Be careful what you wish for.

    Although the U.S. Federal tax code is an unmanageable mess, blaming the IRS for this is misguided. The code and the IRS are both creatures created by Congress. If there is any fault, it lies with Congress.

    If it is not possible to fix both the Tax Code and the Government at the same time, then it is more important to fix the Government. Fixing the Government requires that the First Amendment by fixed. Nearly impossible I would think, as the U.S. is caught in a Catch 22 situation in which a well-working Government is needed to fix a malfunctioning Government. Perhaps, in desperation, a philanthropist like a Buffett or a Soros will step forward with billions to see that it is done. That is what it would take: a massive force outside of Government. I'll certainly be dead long before a significant transformation occurs. I still care however.
     
    #25     Dec 3, 2014
  6. "European countries generally tax consumption rather than income, though someone here pointed out that some countries might also impose a very low flat tax on income as well. "

    Don't agree. Income tax is around 50% or even higher. Sales tax (VAT) is much lower.
     
    #26     Dec 3, 2014
  7. piezoe

    piezoe

    I agree with regard to the topmost income bracket in some EU countries. I think the German top bracket is near 40-5%. But of course most countries use a progressive marginal rate system with much lower marginal rates in the lower brackets. Details are available, by country, via Wiki, for those who care to take the time. I would say, however, that, in general, the federal consumption (VAT) taxes are in the range 8-20% in the EU countries. But please check this out for yourself, as I am no expert on EU taxes.

    What is important, from the U.S. tax base perspective, is that currently, when all federal taxes on individuals are considered, including medicare and social security, the net amounts paid as a percent of income is, on average, almost perfectly flat, despite the absurdly complex, U.S. tax code. For example the cohort that earns 3% of the total of U.S. income pays ~3% of the total of individual taxes, the cohort that earns 20% of the total U.S. income pays ~20% of the total of individual taxes, etc. Seen from this perspective the U.S. federal tax structure is nearly perfectly flat already.

    What I maintain is that this unseen "flatness" of the real net tax rates has been primarily responsible for the redistribution of income from the middle class to the wealthy over the past 35 years, or so. This is despite some small amount of progressiveness having been returned to the marginal income tax rates subsequent to the supply-side experiment of the 1980s. Assuming I am correct, a purposeful complete flattening of the income tax brackets would exacerbate the redistribution of wealth we have already experienced, leaving even less capital with the middle class and virtually none with the the lower middle class. In my personal opinion this is a highly undesirable situation that can sap vitality from the U.S. economy, and in the worst case lead to civil unrest. No one, including the wealthy, benefits from such a lopsided distribution of capital. A permanent trapping of lower paid workers in the labor class can result! If the lower middle class is to escape from labor to the capital class it must have access to capital. The tax structure must be such that some capital is left with the lower middle class.
     
    #27     Dec 3, 2014
  8. Is that view the result of your research or just what some Lefty said? (Lefties LOVE progressive taxes... allows them to "buy" the vote of those who don't pay Federal Income Tax.)

    Personally, I see a flat tax as being integral in the possible salvation of America. Not that we'll ever see it, of course... as DemoCraps are happy to burn America to the ground so long as they get to rule over the ashes.
     
    #28     Dec 3, 2014
  9. Almost all of the so-called "flat tax" proposals are extremely regressive with "asterisked" lower taxation rates for sources of income correlated with higher wealth. I haven't seen a true "flat tax" proposal bandied about.
     
    #29     Dec 3, 2014
  10. piezoe

    piezoe

    When I was listening to Steve Forbes proposal when he was running for the nomination, that is a question that popped up in my mind. What was he proposing for capital gains, and other non-earned income. He was, so far as I'm aware, silent on this issue. I read one or two of his editorials in Forbes as well. Again, he was silent on the non-earned income issue.
     
    #30     Dec 3, 2014