Prudent Risk Management + No Edge = Positive Expectancy??

Discussion in 'Risk Management' started by ironchef, Nov 14, 2023.

  1. ironchef

    ironchef

    OK thanks.

    Options are my bread and butter trades and I continue to trade while learning to day trade.

    Once I am done with finding a profitable day trading system, my next project is trading butterfly, the @destriero way.

    Best wishes to you for Thanksgiving.
     
    #81     Nov 22, 2023
  2. ironchef

    ironchef

    Update:

    If I use the standard margin of error of 3% (most political polls use 3%), then the sample size to use is 540.

    As of today, after 9 weeks going live (but small size), I have done 538 trades with 296 winers and 242 losers. R:R is 1:1. Within a 3% margin of error, it is a profitable system.

    As far as I can tell, PRM can produce a positive expectancy in a system with no obvious edge.
     
    #82     Nov 22, 2023
  3. tiddlywinks

    tiddlywinks


    The problem is you are trying to prove the wrong thing.

    If as you say "PRM can produce a positive expectancy in a system with no obvious edge" then
    you should just buy or sell at will, at random, and you will be profitable over a large enough number of trades.
    And everyone lives the lifestyle they want, happily ever after!

    What you should be attempting to prove is your ENTRY EDGE, which apparently is not "obvious" to you.
    That would involve looking at the individual criteria that goes into your trade selection
    and making a case, quantitatively, for existence of that criteria in the trade selection.

    Every trade for every style of trade, for every trader, for every asset, has risk that can be managed or not.
    If PRM is really an edge, than risk as trade selection criteria adds nothing.

    Dimiti, lobster and cracked crab for everyone. Extra primo good Mr. Coleman sir!

    Happy Thanksgiving!

    BTW... what does Prudent mean in the context of Prudent Risk Management?
     
    #83     Nov 22, 2023
    longandshort and ironchef like this.
  4. ironchef

    ironchef

    That, you have to ask the originator, @Buy1Sell2.
     
    #84     Nov 22, 2023
  5. ironchef

    ironchef

    Excellent point, a good entry will give me an edge and I should concentrate on improving that.
     
    #85     Nov 22, 2023
  6. schizo

    schizo

    It means "Don't be a friggin' hero!"
     
    #86     Nov 22, 2023
    ironchef likes this.
  7. ironchef

    ironchef

    And don't be greedy.

    I made one adjustment going from paper to live: Instead of letting my winners run (many into losses that upset me to no end), I now take profits aggressively and improved win rate from under 50% to over 50%.

    There is no free lunch. Net profit went down significantly. But I am more comfortable with higher win rate than higher profits.
     
    #87     Nov 22, 2023
    schizo likes this.
  8. ironchef

    ironchef

    1. PRM is easy to preach but extremely difficult to practice. I am convinced properly practiced, it is an edge.

    2. Trade selection is accretive to PRM.
     
    #88     Nov 22, 2023
  9. There are simple stat tests to determine this. I would start with a bootstrap test and if promising results then try something more formal and parametric. If you want to send me the series of returns I'd be happy to run a few tests if that's not in your wheelhouse.
     
    #89     Nov 23, 2023
    ironchef likes this.
  10. Yeah, you don't want you margin of error to be 5% in this case.

    A very dirty way to do this is take a sample of like 100 of the returns, calculate win rate. Do this 1000 or 10000 times. If the 1:1 win rate is between the first and 3rd quartile, then it's random and you got nothing. 3 lines of code. No fancy parametric stats necessary and no more time wasted on it.
     
    #90     Nov 23, 2023
    ironchef likes this.