Proved, the commodities market was rigged

Discussion in 'Wall St. News' started by stock777, Sep 10, 2008.

  1. To all you pinheads that called it a free market and business as usual, you have now been proven wrong. You are usually wrong about everything , so nothing new there.

    read it and weep

    Oil Investors Pulled $39 Billion in Futures, Triggering Decline

    By Daniel Whitten

    Sept. 10 (Bloomberg) -- Commodity index investors, blamed for record oil prices, sold $39 billion worth of oil futures between their July record and Sept. 2, causing crude to plunge, according to a report to be released today

    The work by Michael Masters, president of the Masters Capital Management hedge fund, blames investors who buy and hold an index of commodities for driving prices to records, and for their subsequent drop. It comes a day before the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission is set to discuss its own study of energy trading with a congressional committee.

    Masters testified three times before Congress this year, arguing that limits on traders would cut oil prices to $65 to $70 a barrel. He has been cited by lawmakers who introduced at least 20 measures to curb speculation. Congressional pressure on the CFTC to step up enforcement and restrict anonymous trades has pushed index traders out of their positions, Masters said.

    ``I don't think it's just coincidence that the money came out after the pressure was put on these folks,'' Masters, who wants legislation that would set limits on index commodity holdings, said in an interview.

    Crude oil futures surged to a record $147.27 on July 11, an increase of 53 percent for the year, on the New York Mercantile Exchange, then fell 26 percent to $109.71 on Sept. 2. Oil dropped $3.08 to $103.26 yesterday on the Nymex.

    ``The speculators that drove prices up basically deflated the bubble,'' said Fadel Gheit, director of oil and gas research at Oppenheimer Capital in New York. ``They said, `That's it, the game is over. We are going to bet on another horse.'''
  2. No, no, no...

    You see, as so many oil bulls here argued, it was ALL supply & demand.

    If they are correct, world oil demand has fallen by 30% in the last 8 weeks.

  3. S2007S


    How many here said this time it was different and that oil was going to keep going and going and going. Told you oil and commodities were in a bubble. Fools. Oil will probably fall just as it rose. Oil is probably headed back to $50 a barrel where it belongs. You will be lucky to see $200 oil over the next 5-10 years.
  4. You don't suppose any investment banks went straight from one of Uncle Ben's lending facilities over to the commodities market do you?

  5. Anddd your point is????? LOL :D :p :D

    Who else do you expect to be making the price be going up and down?? lol

    The trades who 'speculate' on the market are the guys who trade the market.. :D
  6. $39 billion in oil futures = 5 days worth of global crude consumption at $100 a barrel, i.e. a drop in the bucket.
  7. dont


    Point Masters made was that these Index and Swap "speculators" were forced to buy as it went up and now as its going down they are forced to sell.

    Pretty clear to me then and now, that he was right.

    So much for the "delivery" argument.

  8. It does not hurt to have SOME common sense......

    When one hurriedly moves a large percentage of the total value outstanding in terms of its worth.....the price is exagerated.....either direction.....

    It does not matter what the label of the price is....

    Oil....Leh....Mer....GOOG....and so on....


    The issue at hand is prove it in legal fashion....and then do something about it ....if you please.....that is ....if you know how....otherwise, eat my dust.....

    This is the message from Goldman-Blankfein, MS-Mack......and others.....
    No ? Then publicly disclose the trading books....

  9. I didn't see one single thing in the article that proves the market wasn't free. Not even one thing to suggest it.

    Let me ask you a question. Do you even know what a free market is?

  10. Do you have an inkling of what a futures market is supposed to do?

    Well, since you don't, let me help you. A futures market is about settling price for FUTURE settlement, a prediction of what future supply and demand will be. And, if people believe that there will be FUTURE supply constraints, it DOES affect how much people will pay for oil TODAY.

    Today's supply and demand backdrop is only ONE component of what possible FUTURE supply/demand might be.

    The same people that tell you all this nonsense about evil specs are usually the same people that tell you that if taxes are raised, it won't affect economic growth, that if the min wage is raise, it won't affect employment, and on and on and on. Complete rubbish.
    #10     Sep 10, 2008