Protect your deposit from off shore firm,WTS--another firm disappears with our deposit after Title T

Discussion in 'Prop Firms' started by kang, Oct 7, 2015.

How much deposit and payment have you lost ?

  1. 0

  2. 0 to 1k

    0 vote(s)
  3. 1k to 5k

  4. 5k to 50k

  5. 50k to 200k

  6. 200k-1m

  7. 1m+

    0 vote(s)
  1. kang


    It has been almost 10 years since I started as a prop trader. During these years, I have witnessed many friends of mine suffer from deposit loss for over $2 million. However, we are very lucky and never become one of them until last year. Plenty of managers are accused and forced to stop their business just because they don’t receive money from brokers and cannot pay their traders. Some firms even go bankrupt. My friends did sue two different companies for holding their deposits. But money has never been returned in the end. Does that mean we would never be protected?

    Here, please help us to write down your similar experience. We want to know how many of you have ever suffered from the same situation as me. Please do not expose the name of that company. Otherwise I might be blamed for slander. Just fill in how much you lost, when and whether you are a trader or manager. Let’s be together.

    How much you lost When Trader or manager

    $250K 2015 Manager

    Last year when we stopped trading in WTS and asked for settlement, Dan from WTS told me that they would pay us in a few months. It seemed acceptable for us since we had done business with them for many years. However, it turned out to be a fraud. During the next several months, they disappeared and never replied to our emails or messages,we try to email to Simon the boss of WTS,but no reply. In these days, we finally get contacted with Michel who is the riskmanager of WTS. He still refuses to answer why they hold our deposit and even infamously denies that they had ever promised to return our deposit. Supposed he was right, he can neither prove that they have already paid our deposit back. They are unwilling to talk with us by phone, even about other business issues like clearing houses. Now you can see how WTS treat their clients.

    The following is our talk record:

    hi Michel

    [18/9/2015 10:48:43] Michel Watteyne: Hi

    [18/9/2015 10:56:29] Ben: what about my deposit?

    [18/9/2015 10:56:46] Ben: you didn't pay us

    [18/9/2015 10:56:54] Michel Watteyne: Ben

    [18/9/2015 10:57:06] Michel Watteyne: All of that was very thoroughly discussed more than a year ago.

    [18/9/2015 10:57:19] Ben: I don't think so

    [18/9/2015 10:57:55] Ben: you said you will pay us sometime later

    [18/9/2015 10:59:14] Michel Watteyne: I never said that.

    [18/9/2015 10:59:33] Ben: are you move to ICBC?Did SEC left?

    [18/9/2015 11:00:25] Ben: where's my deposit?why you refuse to pay us?

    [18/9/2015 11:00:49] Michel Watteyne: This discussion is over Ben, I am not having the same exact discussion I had 1 year ago,

    [18/9/2015 11:01:00] Michel Watteyne: You asked me the same exact questions, and I Gave you the same exact answers.

    [18/9/2015 11:01:23] Ben: so what's the answer?

    [18/9/2015 11:08:06] Ben: why you refuse to explain my deposit?

    [18/9/2015 11:08:17] Michel Watteyne: Because I already explained it 1 year ago!

    [18/9/2015 11:08:27] Ben: just told me

    [18/9/2015 11:09:03] Ben: you told me you will pay me later

    [18/9/2015 11:09:42] Ben: so could you tell how many deposit you hold from us

    [18/9/2015 11:10:00] Michel Watteyne: Everything about this group is closed and dealt with

    [18/9/2015 11:10:28] Ben: no,we didn't recieced my deposit

    [18/9/2015 11:10:35] Ben: you never send to us

    [18/9/2015 11:11:10] Ben: do you have something can prove it?

    [18/9/2015 11:15:20] Ben: so,can we talk on phone,that's would be faster

    [18/9/2015 11:15:30] Michel Watteyne: There is absolutely nothing to discuss

    [18/9/2015 11:15:42] Michel Watteyne: There is no point in talking, Ive said it before, and I will say it again

    [18/9/2015 11:15:50] Michel Watteyne: The group is closed and the relationship between us is over.

    [18/9/2015 11:16:31] Ben: mb we can talk about other thing,like ICBC

    [18/9/2015 11:16:49] Michel Watteyne: No, there is nothing to discuss, as I said.

    [18/9/2015 11:18:29] Ben: fine,keep in touch :D

    Moreover, in order to avoid unnecessary fee or trouble for both sides, we informed them at the outset of October that we would stop trading and settle our accounts at the end of that month. However, our accounts were closed immediately all of a sudden when our traders were still trading. All accounts were disabled compulsively. All positions were market flatted. It was such a surprise for us. We wondered whether we were misunderstood and asked them to reactivate our accounts. But they rejected with no explanation. They only told us to contact Michel. And then we were passed to another person named Dan. As you can imagine, no result was there. We had cooperated with WTS for over three years since 2011. We never expect an end like this where even withdrawing deposit would be that difficult.

    I don't know how to insert my picture, those are screenshots of our account statements in last year.we made over 1.5 million dollar last year.

    Has anyone encountered the similar situation like us? What did u do when you settled your accounts in WTS? There must be someone that gets their money back while some not. In addition, we also suffer more than $200K from Title’s event. I absolutely know we are not the first one,and never the last one. Is there any method that can put us under protection? Why do they choose to escape, delay or disappear instead of talk and communicate?

    I am ashamed for my poor English. That is why I only read threads and discussion, rather than reply to or join in your talk during these years. So you may figure out this ID is relatively new. But I don’t want to keep silent any more, especially after this terrible experience. Sincerely wish you can learn from my lesson and this kind of story would never happen again. for more detail.
  2. rmorse

    rmorse Sponsor


    Did you ever file a complaint with their SRO and take them to arbitration? If you lost that much money, you should not wait.

  3. carrer


    Were you trading Forex and took the advantage of price difference (delay) between brokers like these guys:
    (Help! $1.5 Million Stuck with IronFX, any suggestion please?)
    VPhantom and zdreg like this.
  4. zdreg


    company is located in cayman islands. arbitration is generally a waste of time.
    VPhantom and Gambit like this.
  5. rmorse

    rmorse Sponsor

    WTS was not a US registered Broker Dealer?
  6. zdreg


    it is not currently.
  7. Kang,

    Very sorry to hear your experience with WTS. If you live in the US, for your trading in the future, I would suggest you choose a broker/dealer which is a member of SIPC. An account with a SIPC insured broker/dealer is protected up to $500k with a sublimit of $250k of cash.

    You can verify if a broker/dealer is a member of SIPC at Personally I would never open accounts at non-SIPC members.
    ras72 likes this.
  8. rmorse

    rmorse Sponsor


    Prop Firms that are broker dealers are not offered SIPC protection. The prop firms that are not registered BDs, have their own potential issues. Either way, that account would not have direct SIPC insurance. He would have to open his own customer account.
    ras72 likes this.
  9. kang


    We have already tried to contract whoever we could find in WTS, but there is no reply for us. Where can we go for arbitration? If someone can help me, I am willing to share half of my deposit with him. If someone can take them to places like FINRA and make them be punished, I will give him all the deposit. As you know, many people haven’t yet received their money from TT and we also lost over $200K. This kind of problem is not easy to deal with, according to what I know. Supposing I win the arbitration, I am afraid that my deposit is not enough to cover the attorney fee.
  10. rmorse

    rmorse Sponsor


    You have to file a complaint with their regulator if they were a US BD. Look at your contract and read the arbitration provision. Who is TT?
    #10     Oct 7, 2015