Mav, you and I understand this business probably better than most on the board. Possibly Evo and and HitnRun and a few others understand as well. There are some firms that will actually hire people, and as you say, check Chicago. I have sent people to Chicago to find these jobs, they are rare a far between, but they are there. New traders who want to get involved in the business are not guaranteed, buy birthright, or anything else, a job in this business. Let everyone, anyone, here on ET say "I'll risk my money to give this guy a shot" - great, go for it. Even our top guys only guarantee very close friends, who work a zillion hours every month... As I've said before.... "Hey Mister, I think I'm a pretty good trader, pool player, bowler, whatever...would you mind risking $100k of your money to let me try my (system, plan, strategy, back test, whatever)... well, the answer is probably no. Serious traders, serious business people, know that with reward, comes risk...some is better than others. I honestly think we do better than most other firms, but that does not mean everyone will do well. Don
I understand it perfectly....that's the point I am trying to make. I'm not the one that originally posted those firms....I was just responding that most on this site don't have a chance of getting an interview with those firms let alone get hired (myself included!!). But I don't care. I put money up at a firm and now I'm a trader. I started small trading 100 shares lots and then went to 500 and then 1000 and now usually 2500-5000. I know exactly what kind of trader I am. The type of trader that minimizes losing trades/days and tries to make $500 - $1000 a day. Most days I succeed. I treat it like a business and study the markets, psychology, world events. etc. at all times. On slow days (like lately) I am always reading something that is trading/market related. I know I'm not a quant, analysis, or portfolio manager. I'm just a guy with a prop account with $500,000 of BP, a computer, and an internet connection....and discipline. TD
Yes, but perhaps I didn't make my point clear. People throw the word "trader" around when in fact, many guys on here don't actually want to be traders. The world of finance has changed a lot in the last 10 years and traders make up less then 1% of it. Some guys want to flip stock. That's fine, do it. Some guys want to trade structured products. You're not going to do that at Bright. Some guys want to trade physicals. Not happening at Echo. Some guys want to go into banking or debt. I just get mildly annoyed when this topic comes up and an assumption is made that everyone who is inquiring about prop firms or trading wants to flip shares in AAPL. It's a big world out there guys, explore!
Thanks Don. I have always enjoyed reading your posts. They are always no BS and honest. Although I don't trade at Bright, you can check my posts over the last 2 years and see the praise I have always given your firm.
I think the bulk of the people here want to make money in the world of trading, nothing more, nothing less. Our "quants" do fine, our "daytraders" do fine - there are several ways to make money in this game. When I get calls from guys with a plan, and they want more capital use etc., I say fine - are you wanting to keep doing what you're doing just to try to prove you have "something" - or do you want to make money? This tends to confuse them at times. You get my meaning.... Don
Don, I've always enjoyed reading your posts too and if you go back over the last 2 years you can see I've always praised you as well. Go ahead and check. Do it now! Check!
I definitely agree with you. But the reality is that the majority of us are never going to trade structured products, physicals, or debt...and the closest we are going to get to banking is perhaps a branch manager job at the local Bank of America. Why? Because we don't live in NY, Chicago, or London and didn't graduate with an advanced degree that will allow us an interview. So what is left is the overwhelming majority of threads on ET are about firms that just let you "flip shares". Nothing wrong with that since it works for so many and let's you get in the industry.
I don't know why people say Jane Street and SIG aren't proprietary firms. From Jane Street's website: Trading Traders work in teams to seek out and take advantage of pricing inefficiencies, develop models, manage risk, investigate new products, and push into new business areas. Experienced traders mentor newer colleagues, whose responsibilities increase with their capability. From SIG: The Susquehanna International Group of Companies (SIG) is a world-leading technology-empowered financial trading firm. Founded in 1987, SIG has grown from an options trading firm on the Philadelphia Stock Exchange to one of the worldâs largest privately held financial institutions. Today, with offices around the world, we trade virtually every major financial product and are recognized for our disciplined and quantitative trading approach, and our leading-edge trading systems. These firms are just more quantitative in their approach. Everyone at these firms probably has taken a calculus based probability course instead of taking a random high school graduate.