Prop Firm? Educational Companies? Free Online Education? What do we do???

Discussion in 'Educational Resources' started by mohan22, Nov 8, 2009.

  1. mohan22


    First off I would love to just hear from someone who has already become a successful stock trader and a quick story on how they got started, what they did for education, what trading platforms they use, etc.

    I've looked over a good amount of posts here but, sorry if I offend anyone, haven't necessarily heard anything very credible from anybody yet. Not to say people here do not know what they are talking about because of course I have no real way of knowing their credibility, but I would love to see someone's opinion that is matched with some hard evidence and their own experience. Again sorry if you find that statement offensive, but if you're trying to voice your opinion about something I would hope you take into consideration next time you make a post and instead of bashing something and capitalizing SCAM, how about showing some evidence, a well thought out opinion, or an alternative to what you're claiming is a "SCAM"? How would you know it is a scam without any sort of caparison?

    With that said, my real point is I am stuck in a phase where I am extremely interested in learning more about trading on the stock market and have learned most all of the basics. Are there any recommendations on what steps to take next? There are so many educational programs out there to choose from but many seem to be very overpriced and possibly less professional. In my opinion, I feel like having a mentor would probably help you learn and master new strategies most efficiently, and many educational programs seem to offer having a mentor along with purchasing a whole bunch of education classes.

    The one I am currently looking at is from a company called Tigrent Learning, which I was extremely surprised to find that when I searched "Tigrent" on this forum I had 0 search results. Also its important to note that Robert Kiyosaki's "Rich Dad Education" is where I came across this. I basically received an e-mail from the saying there is a free "stock success" seminar coming in to town and after liking what I saw I did decide to go to the $500 3 day training (which could be 250 since you can bring a "free" guest). This 3 day training class I just completed is what led to the sales pitch on buying the Tigrent Learning stock education program, which if you wanted to buy the FULL package it would cost just under 40k. The one nice thing though is that which every package regardless of which one you want, you can bring a guest with you. So it really is half that price when you find a friend to pitch in.

    If you go to and look at the top where it says "Financial Instruments" and under that is all the possible classes they offer, each one being about 5k normally but with full package you get all 10 classes and a mentor for 40k.

    So anyways does anyone have any information on Tigrent Learning? or have any high recommendations on something else?

    You know something funny is after looking over the forum I have found mainly negative reviews over Maverick Trading, which I guess is some sort of prop firm? Many people have bashed and said SCAM or basically just said BS and worthless, however this is the really really weird part. The instructor for this 3 day training I just finished, admitted he took the Maverick Trading course when he got started in the biz and right now he is now an extremely successful investor. After 5 years of being in the business he was easily making 10-30k a week. (I understand this might sound crazy but trust me this was straight from his mouth and is very very possible with the right capital) Anyways so I'm sitting there thinking he says he did Maverick and now he recommends Tigrent (of course because he is getting paid to do this, it is his job) and I don't know what to do now!

    On top of admitting that he has used Maverick in the past, I noticed that some of the educational tools he was using to teach us during the 3 days was obviously Maverick Trading stuff! He brought out a paper showing steps to take before getting into a trade and then when I went to the Maverick Trading site and starting looking around I noticed all these similar things.

    My last question is what about free online education? How thorough is the stuff out there for free that you can learn?

    One of the things I found funny about this 3 day training class is that I honestly only learned about 3 or 4 things in this class. You know why? I had 3 week period between the free little seminar until I attended the 3 day class, and I was so worried I would be lost in this class trying to learn all these option strategies and info about futures and ETF's that I went online and studied everything I could find. I watched videos and read stuff on wikipedia and looked at educational material at online brokers. In the end I learned so much free stuff to prepare for this class, that I learned virtually nothing in the class. The most advanced thing we talked about was what the Forex is and how to do a Bull Call strategy haha. What I'm getting at is that I essentially learned everything the $500 3 day training taught me! So how advanced can and professional of a trader can I become while the learning is still free?

    Right now I can go to and look at tons of articles and videos and stuff for free education, I can go to my optionsxpress account and view free stuff, I can go to
    and learn TONS TONS more!

    So has anyone learned enough from free material online to consider themselves a "professional trader"??
    And when I say professional trader I strongly believe that making 50-80% ROI would make u qualified as a professional.

    So in conclusion:
    What do you recommend?
    Why do you recommend this?
    What is your experience with stock market?
    What sort of successes have you had?
    How did you achieve these successes?

    Please leave legitimate and full answers to this thread.

    Basically like I mentioned in the beginning, prove you credibility in some way if possible.
  2. 1KW


    i recently attended a free seminar run by women in wealth which is headed up by tigrent. it was very well pitched and i signed up to do an expensive course later this year.
    the presenter was throwing duncan bannatyne and james caan's names around, insinuating that they were involved with their company, so when i got home, totally excited and hyped up, i started googling to see how they were involved. they are not involved in any way, shape or form; they merely attended the same charity event once. it turns out that it's yet another scam. tigrent is owned by russ whitney and they run seminar scams. i won't bore you with the details, but google russ whitney and whitney group and pretty soon you find pages of very unhappy people who have lost a lot of money. i had to fight to get my money back after deciding not to attend the course, even though there is meant to be a 7 day cooling off period. what really upset me though, is that everyone in the room signed up to the course and most of the people could barely afford basic living costs, nevermind several hundred pounds on a scam.
    do your homework before you sign up for anything! the presenters are extremely well trained, and of course, you only get "a special price" if you sign up there and then, on the day.
    go home and have a think first. if you do decide to go ahead with the course you can always attend the next free seminar to get the special price.

    let us know if you find a good course to go on.
    and also if you have been on any that were not worthwhile.
  3. mohan22


    From everything I've seen by searching around the internet for different educational programs and information I really think the best route if you're very serious about learning to be successful in the stock market is to just take the extra time and learn from free material scattered online.

    When I went to the 3 day training class (which is mainly designed to get people to sign up for advanced courses that are about 5-6k each class) they gave us a booklet showing an outline of what each advanced class is taught. And then I started reading the material that would be taught during one of these advanced classes if I signed up and it was stuff like Stochastics? Bull Put Spreads?? Moving Averages?? I was just thinking "You have got to be sh*ting me!" I already learned allllll of this stuff in great detail in just a couple of days all by myself from using various online sources. Basically the classes that were supposed to be "advanced" look completely useless unless this was going to be the very first time for someone to learn this material.

    Although I hate to say it is a complete waste of money and is worthless, because the fact of the matter is that if you do spend the money and take these advanced courses you will learn a lot and will be able to become a very successful trader. And if you have 40k in the bank to spend on these classes to learn how to trade correctly, and you do apply what you learn, I believe you will make back your investment at some point and make plenty of money in the future which will make the educational cost worthwhile. If you don't have this kind of money, which I don't, there is a lot of material online, and it looks like you can achieve a very "advanced" level of trading with what is online for free since I've noticed these 5,000 Tigrent Learning "advanced" courses teach you most things you can learn online for free.

    I will try to type up the Tigrent Learning catalog I received later to show you what they teach in their advanced classes. For now I am going to stick with learning from free educational sources.

    Does anyone have any websites they recommend to look at for free education?
    I look mainly at
  4. 1KW


    we share the same end goal. unfortunately i am at the same stage that you are at. i have searched for courses and/or a mentor for ages but have not really come up with anything. i did a bsc financial economics degree a few years back but had to stop due to unexpected circumstances. it was brilliant but it didn't teach me how to be a successful trader; even if i had graduated.
    what i have come to realise is that it's going to be experience that gets me there. simple trial and error. i think what you are doing - using free tools builds a very good foundation.
    my youngest starts school next year and i have decided to read trading and property books, one at a time, and step by step implement everything i read. i am going to make doing that my full time job.
    in the meantime i read moneyweek, and i practise my trading skills on
    using the knowledge that i glean from my fantasy trades i then make real trades on etrade. i also use a lot of the information on etrade and also bloomberg.
    granted this is not the easiest or quickest way to achieve my goals of being an excellent trader and making some serious money, but if you are not lucky enough to know someone who can show you the ropes it seems like a good enough option.

    just btw, i believe kiyosaki is involved with the whitney group. it seems that he does exactly what he suggests in his books - direct marketing for another income stream. that's what all the rich dad courses are. sadly, it seems that they don't deliver what they promise at all. their end goal is simply to bring in as much money as possible; not to educate. tigrent is part of the whitney group. and from what you said about the course above; it is run in EXACTLY the same way as the one i went to and the same way as the whitney and rich dad ones that are mentioned all over the internet on scam websites.
  5. not with a grain of salt,

    but with the whole salt mine!

    read through the lines and experiences of those that have gone before you in this effort.

    they are here for all to see, on ET

    Baron, has done and continues to do a wonderful service to the community by having this forum, and the other associated forums that copy content and share trader experiences..

    at some point in time, you'll come across the "so called training" that some proprietary (prop) firms offer to help make the transition from want to be - to actual trader. here is where the salt mine comes in, because you can't believe their frequent posts even with a grain of salt, you have to take the whole salt mine.

    at some point you will be offered classes to learn to trade a variety of vehicles, whether stocks, etf(s), futures, emini futures, currencies, whatever. they will charge as much as the market can bear and sound ohh so convincing too. here is where the salt mine comes in again.

    at the point that it takes $25,000 to become a partner at a trading firm and even more to live on because they say it will take months to be successful, then consider the alternative and go back to college and get a formal degree, perhaps not even in investments what so ever.


    read through the broker experiences, broker ratings, software ratings, prior listings on trading firms / career opportunities, etc.

    don't be put off by all the negativity, that's what happens when reality meets results for most traders.

    now if you can make it across that desert with just a canteen of water, then you fully deserve to be a trader, it will never be easy, but its ohh so rewarding...
  6. After trading for over 17 years, the one thing I am sure of is that trading can be learned, but it is very difficult to teach. It took me over two years of studying, experimentation and refining until I finally became consistently profitable. I wouldn't say that the next 15 years were "easy trading," but I have managed to stay well in the black.

    I tried teaching a long-time friend of mine to trade, and more recently, one of my nephews. In both cases, they gave up after several months. Both of them are bright, educated and disciplined. Yet both failed. Maybe I'm a lousy teacher. But I think it's more fundamental than that. What works for one person, does not work for another.

    Trading reveals every weakness, every flaw. Therefore, you must discover not "what works," but rather "what works for YOU."

    My trading methodology seems so simple to me. But if it was really so simple, why did two bright people fail when I tried to teach them how I trade?

    In contrast, my nine year-old daughter can sit in front of the computer screen, read the charts and "see" good trades left and right. Why? I think it's because her mind isn't clouded by concepts of success and failure. She doesn't worry about what she'll do if she fails at trading. And money doesn't really mean anything to her. She just assumes it will be there when she needs it.

    Maybe the key to learning to trade is to think like a child. As my daughter says, "It's like playing the piano, daddy. You just play the notes in front of you."
  7. Truff


    Excellent commentary. You hit the nail right on the head!!!
  8. Marqui


    Nearly all the information you need is freely available on the web and in blogs across the net.

    One site that has a ton of information and videos is:

    Check out the University section, it is loaded with videos on all topics. That should keep you busy for a long time. After that try some things on your own with the simulator. If trading is something that suits you then find a mentor for some one-on-one attention.

  9. Pekelo


    I am not sure why you think of that because the 2 cases you described are examples to the CONTRARY.

    So unless you actually know a few people who learnt from others how to trade, your statement isn't valid. Unless you meant learning by him/herself...
  10. mohan22


    I may have run across a very good and affordable educational program! Although I know there is tons of free information everywhere and its probably not even necessary to pay someone to teach you how to do it, I did do just that 2 days ago (on 11/10/09)

    If anyone is trading on optionsXpress you especially may be interested to hear this.

    I was at the beginning level 2 options trading and then got myself upgraded to level 4. A couple of days later I received a phone call from an optionsXpress representative offering me their access to their new educational program which includes tons of webinars, pdf's with tons of material to study, weekly "live trading" webinars that you can interact with so you can ask questions to the instructor teaching, everyday of the week there is a webinar teaching something new, and there is a personal mentor sort of program where you basically can call them at any time between 9am and 9pm for personal one on one attention and guidance. It sounds way too good to be true and I asked the guy how much it was and it is just 149 a month with no cancellation fee, no contract, 3 day trial where you can quickly check things out and cancel for full refund, and there are no sort of upgrades even to purchase (meaning you wont end up paying more for additional "access" or anything like that)

    Well there is a couple small small catches.

    First off, from what I was told this is a new program they are offering and they screen people that they think would benefit and be interested from this educational program and go ask them if they want to be in it. I can't find anything on the normal optionsXpress site mentioning this program and again, they called me after I upgraded to level 4 options trading so this seem correct. If anyone is interested you'll probably need to call optionsXpress hotline to find more info on this.

    Secondly, this 149 a month is november's rate. After november they are supposed to be going up to 249 a month, but luckily if you pay this 149 a month you get grandfathered in at this price so that if you cancel completely and sign up again later you can hold the 149 rate. So anyone that is seriously going to look into it then do it sometime in the next couple of weeks (remember you get 3 days to call back and ask for refund)

    I jumped on this right away and am staying with this because of two reasons.
    1) I read someone say somewhere on this site that they believe a monthly program is most likely the best route since its not as expensive and you can cancel anytime if you don't like it, and I did see a few sites that charge monthly and they were like 500 a month plus if you want to upgrade to more access its 600 a month instead which sounds better than other places I've seen but not all that great.
    2) And like I said in a older post, the Tigrent Learning program had a booklet they gave us, and inside there was an outline of what you learn in all of the 10 different 5000 dollar classes they offered.
    So what I am about to post is part of the list of stuff on that optionsXpress 149 a month educational program I purchased.


    Session 1—Options Basics (Webinars and Course Material)

    - Personal Risk Assessment
    - Achieving Your Financial Goals
    - Skills Experience Assessment
    - The optionsXpress Trading Methodology
    - Introduction to Options
    - The optionsXpress Option Pricer
    - Trading Basics—Order Ticket Selections
    - Risk Management
    - Trading Options Using Stop Orders
    - Using Stop-Limit Orders
    - Position Management
    - Money Management
    - Risk Management
    - Calculating Trade Risk
    - Trading Plan
    - Case Study: Trading with a Plan

    Back to Top

    Session 2—Trading Long Calls (Webinars and Course Material)

    - Introduction to Trading Long Calls
    - Long Call Basics
    - Loss Potential
    - Breakeven Point—Stock Trader
    - Breakeven Point—Option Trader
    - Trading Plans
    - Entry
    - Exiting Your Trade
    - Trading Long Calls
    - Case Study: Trading with a Plan

    Back to Top

    Session 3—The optionsXpress Method with Puts (Webinars and Course Material)

    - Introduction to Trading Long Puts
    - Long Put Basics
    - Loss Potential
    - Breakeven Point
    - Trading Plans
    - Entry
    - Exiting Your Trade
    - Trading Long Puts
    - Case Study: Trading with a Plan

    Back to Top

    Session 4—Trading Covered Calls (Webinars and Course Material)

    - Introduction to Trading Covered Calls
    - Long Stock vs. Covered Call
    - Covered Call Basics
    - Loss Potential
    - Breakeven Point
    - Maximum Gain
    - Position Sizing
    - Trading Plans
    - Trading Covered Calls
    - Case Study: Trading with a Plan

    Back to Top

    Session 5—Cash Covered Puts (Webinars and Course Material)

    - Introduction to Cash Covered Puts
    - Cash Covered Put Basics
    - Covering a Potential Assignment
    - Breakeven Point
    - Maximum Gain
    - Position Sizing
    - Trading Plans
    - Trading Cash Covered Puts
    - Case Study: Trading with a Plan

    Back to Top

    Session 6—Review and Adapt (Webinars and Course Material)

    - Introduction to Cash Covered Puts
    - The optionsXpress Trading Methodology Review
    - Strategy 1: Trading Long Calls
    - Strategy 2: Trading Long Puts
    - Strategy 3: Trading Covered Calls
    - Strategy 4: Trading Cash Covered Puts


    Then there is another 6 Sessions of information for "Intermediate Options" material that is just as thorough. The point I'm making is that with just this 150 bucks I spent I already have gotten easy access to allllll the material I would have learned if I took all of those 10 Tigrent Learning classes priced at 5k each.

    So going back to the beginning...yes there is plenty of free info out online, so much so that you don't really need to be paying anyone to teach you. However with this site I'll be able to learn just about everything front to back, with support from optionsXpress mentors, and in an order so that I build one thing on top of another, and that is why I decide to go ahead an purchase at least this month's worth of access to this site. So if you're interested in what I'm looking at give optionsXpress a call and see what the deal is. But if you don't want to spend any money you may want to look at the list of stuff I posted anyways an maybe try to learn those things in that same order since they seem to recommend it like this.
    #10     Nov 13, 2009