Proof that Israel wants WW3

Discussion in 'Politics' started by TorontoTrader2, Aug 10, 2008.

  1. Yes I am familiar with Georgian ethnic groups, I am also familiar with thousands of ethnic groups residing in Russia and with the way Russia deals with separatist attempts within their borders (hint - Chechnya).

    I am not defending the Georgian attack on their break-away region as it's a matter of a completely separate discussion. I am condemning the actions of the Russian government though as they are currently bombing and invading (without a provocation) a sovereign nation. And btw that break-away region is considered to be part of Georgia by absolutely all governments, international organizations and international laws.

    Oh and out of curiosity, why do you (and people like you, TT2 etc) always have to support the bad guys? Seriously, is it just a side-effect of your anti-Americanism (and antisemitism in TT2's case) or you guys have some deeper issues?
     
    #11     Aug 11, 2008
  2. a_person,

    there you start with the personal attacks again ... :p


    If you read my other and longer post in the thread about "full scale invation of Georgia", you will see that I actually see the conflict as being rooted in long term manipulation of the parts involved in the conflict, and as remnants of the cold-war tactics.

    You, on the other hand, always take one side - while I try and stay objective, and not taking any side.

    I do point out the obvious flaws, and encumbered views passed off in media with blatant propaganda from some who are politically bigots.

    I can readily admit to not knowing the first about the ethnic groups in the region before this conflict started - but after looking it up it turns out the breakaway regions are different ethnic groups than the rest of Georgia.

    I guess that makes your reasoning a bit strange. Draw parallels to Kosovo for instance ...

    South Ossetia is part of North Ossetia (integral Ossetia) as one ethnic group, and North Ossetia is over the border from Georgia ...
     
    #12     Aug 11, 2008
  3. If death cult = Islamic terror, correct. They are everywhere. Even the bathroom is no longer safe:

    [​IMG]
     
    #13     Aug 11, 2008
  4. speres

    speres

    Bravo to Israel for sticking up for themselves.
     
    #14     Aug 11, 2008
  5. there you start with the personal attacks again ... :p
    Oh come on, asking what's wrong with you supporting the Putins, Ahmadinejads and Hezbollahs of the world is a legitimate question and not a personal attack. Besides this is an anonymous internet board for christ's sake, personal attacks are a norm, not an exception so stop whining. If you can't stand the heat - get out of the kitchen.

    If you read my other and longer post in the thread about "full scale invation of Georgia", you will see that I actually see the conflict as being rooted in long term manipulation of the parts involved in the conflict, and as remnants of the cold-war tactics.
    You can over-analyze anything you want and of course there are alliances and interests involved. But the bottom line is Georgia wants to keep its universally recognized territory, just like the Russians do in Chechnya.

    You, on the other hand, always take one side
    Fair enough. I always take the pro-western, pro-democracy side. I do realize that this side is not always absolutely right and its actions are not always 100% kosher but it's always 100 times better than the side you side with - Ahmadinejad, Hamas and now Putin.

    - while I try and stay objective, and not taking any side.
    You don't stay objective, you wait and see what side the US, Israel and the western world take and immediately take the opposite side. God knows why you do that but the pattern is absolutely clear.

    it turns out the breakaway regions are different ethnic groups than the rest of Georgia.
    And it should be for the Georgians and Osetians to resolve, Russian involvement and bombings are uncalled for.

    I guess that makes your reasoning a bit strange. Draw parallels to Kosovo for instance ...
    I did not support Kosovo either.

    South Ossetia is part of North Ossetia (integral Ossetia) as one ethnic group, and North Ossetia is over the border from Georgia ...
    How about: "Palestinians are part of the Arab world as one ethnic group and Jordan is over the river from the West Bank". Same logic, isn't it but somehow you are on the opposite side of your own argument.

    Instead, when it comes to the Jews and Arabs in the Middle East belonging to different ethnic and religious groups you and your ilk somehow advocate a one state solution which has never existed and can't possibly exist. Yet it does not prevent you from advocating a two state solution in Georgia five minutes later. Talk about consistency.
     
    #15     Aug 11, 2008
  6. #16     Aug 11, 2008
  7. Israel was established by secular, not religious jews. They lived on the land when it was given to them and it was given to them by the UN, not by God. No family homes would have been bulldozed if the owners of those homes were not involved in wars and countless terror attacks. Educate yourself, ignorance is not a bliss! And read some history books, Israel is the land of the jews whether you and the muslim street like it or not.
     
    #17     Aug 11, 2008
  8.  
    #18     Aug 11, 2008
  9. Clearly, you need a better tub & tile cleaner.
     
    #19     Aug 11, 2008
  10. War in Georgia: The Israeli connection

    For past seven years, Israeli companies have been helping Gerogian army to preparer for war against Russia through arms deals, training of infantry units and security advice
    Arie Egozi

    The fighting which broke out over the weekend between Russia and Georgia has brought Israel's intensive involvement in the region into the limelight. This involvement includes the sale of advanced weapons to Georgia and the training of the Georgian army's infantry forces.

    The Defense Ministry held a special meeting Sunday to discuss the various arms deals held by Israelis in Georgia, but no change in policy has been announced as of yet.

    "The subject is closely monitored," said sources in the Defense Ministry. "We are not operating in any way which may counter Israeli interests. We have turned down many requests involving arms sales to Georgia; and the ones which have been approves have been duly scrutinized. So far, we have placed no limitations on the sale of protective measures."

    Israel began selling arms to Georgia about seven years ago following an initiative by Georgian citizens who immigrated to Israel and became businesspeople.

    "They contacted defense industry officials and arms dealers and told them that Georgia had relatively large budgets and could be interested in purchasing Israeli weapons," says a source involved in arms exports.

    The military cooperation between the countries developed swiftly. The fact that Georgia's defense minister, Davit Kezerashvili, is a former Israeli who is fluent in Hebrew contributed to this cooperation.

    "His door was always open to the Israelis who came and offered his country arms systems made in Israel," the source said. "Compared to countries in Eastern Europe, the deals in this country were conducted fast, mainly due to the defense minister's personal involvement."

    Among the Israelis who took advantage of the opportunity and began doing business in Georgia were former Minister Roni Milo and his brother Shlomo, former director-general of the Military Industries, Brigadier-General (Res.) Gal Hirsch and Major-General (Res.) Yisrael Ziv.

    Roni Milo conducted business in Georgia for Elbit Systems and the Military Industries, and with his help Israel's defense industries managed to sell to Georgia remote-piloted vehicles (RPVs), automatic turrets for armored vehicles, antiaircraft systems, communication systems, shells and rockets.

    According to Israeli sources, Gal Hirsch gave the Georgian army advice on the establishment of elite units such as Sayeret Matkal and on rearmament, and gave various courses in the fields of combat intelligence and fighting in built-up areas.

    'Don't anger the Russians'

    The Israelis operating in Georgia attempted to convince the Israeli Aerospace Industries to sell various systems to the Georgian air force, but were turned down. The reason for the refusal was "special" relations created between the Aerospace Industries and Russia in terms of improving fighter jets produced in the former USSR and the fear that selling weapons to Georgia would anger the Russians and prompt them to cancel the deals.

    Israelis' activity in Georgia and the deals they struck there were all authorized by the Defense Ministry. Israel viewed Georgia as a friendly state to which there is no reason not to sell arms systems similar to those Israel exports to other countries in the world.

    As the tension between Russia and Georgia grew, however, increasing voices were heard in Israel – particularly in the Foreign Ministry – calling on the Defense Ministry to be more selective in the approval of the deals with Georgia for fear that they would anger Russia.

    "It was clear that too many unmistakable Israeli systems in the possesion of the Georgian army would be like a red cloth in the face of a raging bull as far as Russia is concerned," explained a source in the defense establishment.

    For inctance, the Russians viewed the operation of the Elbit System's RPVs as a real provocation.

    "It was clear that the Russians were angry," says a defense establishment source, "and that the interception of three of these RPVs in the past three months was an expression of this anger. Not everyone in Israel understood the sensitive nerve Israel touched when it supplied such an advanced arms system to a country whose relations with Russia are highly tense."

    In May it was eventually decide to approve future deals with Georgia only for the sale of non-offensive weapon systems, such as intelligence, communications and computer systems, and not to approve deals for the sale of rifles, aircraft, sells, etc.

    A senior source in the Military Industry said Saturday that despite some reporters, the activity of Georgia's military industry was extremely limited.

    "We conducted a small job for them several years ago," he said. "The rest of the deals remained on paper."

    Dov Pikulin, one of the owners of the Authentico company specializing in trips and journeys to the area, says however that "the Israeli is the main investor in the Georgian economy. Everyone is there, directly or indirectly."

    Georgian minister: Israel should be proud

    "The Israelis should be proud of themselves for the Israeli training and education received by the Georgian soldiers," Georgian Minister Temur Yakobashvili said Saturday.

    Yakobashvili is a Jew and is fluent in Hebrew. "We are now in a fight against the great Russia," he said, "and our hope is to receive assistance from the White House, because Georgia cannot survive on its own.

    "It's important that the entire world understands that what is happening in Georgia now will affect the entire world order. It's not just Georgia's business, but the entire world's business."

    One of the Georgian parliament members did not settle Saturday for the call for American aid, urging Israel to help stop the Russian offensive as well: "We need help from the UN and from our friends, headed by the United States and Israel. Today Georgia is in danger – tomorrow all the democratic countries in the region and in the entire world will be in danger too."

    Zvi Zinger and Hanan Greenberg contributed to this report
     
    #20     Aug 12, 2008