In aggregate, Program Volume executed as agent, for non-member customers amounted to 59.6% of the NYSE volume during Feb. 23-27. Program Volume executed as principal, for their own accounts, amounted to 36.8% of program volume. UBS and CSFB doing most of their program trading for their own account, while everyone else executed for customers, as agent. Index-Arb accounted for 10.5% of program volume during this time frame. http://www.nyse.com/press/p1020656068695.html?displayPage=/press/1020656068695.html
Thats right folks, its not the "daytrader" or the mom and pop trader or the I wana do this part time trader that traders like me trade against. PROGRAMS.......the market is going to PROGRAMS and i can forsee in the future, Specialst automated Programs. PROGRAMS PROGRAMS PROGRAMS, we trade aginst,
my theory is that eventually the markets will go totally flat for an extended period of time, as an end result of the quant driven program trading machines. this time may last 10-20 years and it may begin very very soon..... surfer
effiecent markets will kill the "daytrader"....its already started. However, there are other markets to trade beside US......
absolutely. there will be no more edge whatsoever, and very little movement. in addition, after reading the schonfeld thread concerning the SEC clamping down on the "bright" type prop model--- the daytrader as we know it, could be history soon. best, surfer
Who says that we are trading against programs? The fact of the matter is that "program trading" is simply a fast and efficient way to execute the large orders of a customer. It is a basket of names that are being bought or sold by a trading desk, electronically rather than "physically" by a $2 dollar broker on the floor of the NYSE.
ahhh, that is not accurate. when we speak of programs, what is being referred to is quant based systems that exploit minute inefficiencies across the spectrum of tradeable instruments using vast sums of capital. we are not talking about electronic "basket" type equity executions. best, surfer
Correct surfer....that is what i ment....Waggie, your correct on the "BasKet" style of programs...but those are not making markets efficent as the Quant programs. I traded Baskets , Nasdaq 100 baskets vrs cash and a few others, we stop making money around 2000, so i dont know how many "basket" methods are still there......however, QUANT BOXs are used by the huge Firms and Banks.....those are the trying to kill the spreeds into microcents, lol....... Quant programs are going to be the death of CHOP SHOPs and DAYTRADERS and its going to make my life trading the US markets more difficult.
How I understand it is that program trading contributes to intraday volatility from the buy and sell programs going off throughout the day - programs sell futures and buy stocks, and sell stocks and buy futures repeatedly. If you can tell when a big buy program is going down you can catch a quick move in price. If this is incorrect post your info.
With all due respect, I know that YOU are not talking about electronic "basket" type equity executions, but that is indeed what the NYSE Program statistics that I posted, are all about. Moreover, these stats refer to member firms. 1.) Morgan Stanley 2.) Deutsche Bank 3.) UBS 4.) Goldman Sachs 5.) CSFB 6.) Lehman 7.) RBC Dominion 8.) Bear Stearns 9.) Merrill Lynch 10.) CIBC 11.) Salomon Smith Barney 12.) SG Cowen 13.) Nomura 14.) BNP Paribas 15.) Interactive Brokers The most interesting of the above names to me is the fact that Goldman Sachs did 48.3 million shares in Customer Facilitation trades with Salomon Smith Barney coming in second in that same department with 31.4 million shares, and Merrill Lynch in third with 14.2 million and Deutsche Bank in fourth with 12.5 million shares. These are the houses that are actually taking on "risk" and bidding or offering for the customers order, then unwinding the trade to their advantage/disadvantage.