Profit From Bitcoins Without Buying Bitcoins

MrMuppet · Mar 17, 2021

tayte said:
Yeah on second thought I could be wrong about Robinhood, it's only a theory that they're directly trading against their customers, that would explain why they don't allow any cash BTC withdrawals.

As for guys like Binance, FTX, or even more obvious guys like Houbi, they operate exactly as bucket shops. Real exchanges can't legally participate in trades against exchange member, since that'd display a clear conflict of interest.

Yet this is exactly what bucket shops do, like Binance and co. They offer enough leveraged OTC derivatives that are not necessarily fungible, trade against clients, and make their own markets/prices so they can pick them off easily with seemingly legit margin calls.

It's the same business model as most CFD, Forex shops.

And real trades on legitimate exchange are guaranteed, verified by clearing firms. This is so no funny business such as "mystery wicks" occur to pick off client accounts.

We can see that most crypto market participants can't even distinguish the difference between an exchange vs. Brokerage. The fact that these e-brokerage firms are falsely claiming to be legitimate "exchanges" is a red flag from the get go.

I'm not saying that business model is "bad". It's probably the easiest way to exploit the stupidity of most newbie traders looking for a shortcut to wealth; and personally I think these lazy newbs deserve to lose their money. It's just the shops don't need to lie about it. Why not be honest about their business model like the CFD/Forex shops? You'll still have a shitload of dumb asses willing to throw their money away on over-leveraged bets, all the while develop a better reputation for the industry.
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Dude...what do you think does the bucket in bucket shop stand for?

radex78 · Mar 17, 2021

On last few months, seems Bitcoin trending arise, meanwhile in gold commodity the price decline and look monthly timeframe, price drops significantly, just wonder, maybe investor move money on BTC than gold because easiness to mine

korzes · Mar 17, 2021

S2007S said:
MSTR RIOT and GBTC.
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and maybe SOS

tayte · Mar 17, 2021

tayte said:
... I could be wrong about Robinhood, it's only a theory that they're directly trading against their customers, that would explain why they don't allow any cash BTC withdrawals..
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.

So it looks like Robinhood is indeed running a bucket shop, at least with stocks. Probability of them doing it on crypto too? I'd say high.

source:
"
THIS IS HUGE: RobinHood NEVER OWNED YOUR GME SHARES, they got margin called $3B to cover the shares they needed to buy!"

deepfkvalue · Mar 19, 2021

Saw RIOT mentioned, another one is MARA

TradingForALiving · Mar 20, 2021

tayte said:
Legit Bitcoin futures on CME, BAKKT are the best means to do it.
If you're willing to pay a bit on management fees, and take on credit risk of ETF management companies, there're the Canadian ETFs, there's a German ETF coming real soon too.

For the newbs who're prepared to lose money, bucket shops are ready to take your money at Binance, FTX, Robinhood, etc.
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What do you consider the best futures brokerage to trade BAKKT? What is the account size needed to trade BAKKT?
I am considering Amp using CQG, or
Insignia/IronBeam Futures. They are easy to talk to. Seem to have a good platform and Dom
TraoVate Futures
IG, Futures?
MB Trading/ TradeKing Futures
LightSpeed futures
Ninja Trader with Amp and CQG data.
I am currently using IB for stocks, but not futures due to their high account requirements.

Thank you for your help.

tayte · Mar 20, 2021

TradingForALiving said:
What do you consider the best futures brokerage to trade BAKKT? What is the account size needed to trade BAKKT?

Thank you for your help.
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Any legit brokerage firm would do, I think you'd want to find a shop where they have proven ICE membership, and your money is at least protected (500K) by the SIPC. Another option maybe to work out a deal with a prop shop who's already trading through BAKKT, a lot of the prop shop guys are traders, and often open minded enough to give you a chance if your ideas are good.