Pristine Education

OK, Lucias. Fine. ES and NQ scalpers - firm went from 60 traders to 18 during Steenbarger's tenure as Director of Trader Development while at Kingstree. And that is a fact. Look at Steenbarger's resume and timeline. Scraps got swallowed up by a spread trading firm of 100 traders.

From Crain's Chicago Business:

CHICAGO, IL --- December 14, 2009 --- HTG Capital Partners, a 100-person trading firm based in Chicago, acquired Kingstree Trading Group, which at one time accounted for 25% of stock-index futures trading at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange.
The acquisition by HTG highlights a seismic shift taking place in the Chicago trading world, as large firms absorb smaller ones in a technological arms race that rewards those with the fastest trading systems. Chicago’s futures exchanges were built on open outcry, where traders stand cheek by jowl, shouting and
gesturing to buy and sell futures contracts tied to the price of meats and grains. By the turn of the 21st century, many futures exchanges overseas had begun to handle most or all of their
business electronically — but in Chicago, floor-trading still dominated. Chuck McElveen, Kingstree’s Founder, was an early convert to the electronic trading model, and his firm appealed to floor traders seeking a place to transfer their face-to-face skills to a computer-based environment. Kingstree’s traders, once numbering as many as 60, were the earliest traders of CME’s electronic S&P 500 index futures and helped make them into the market’s most active stock-index-based contracts. “Kingstree was one of the early movers in shaping today’s proprietary trading business, and this merger adds a highly talented group of traders and managers to the HTG organization,” HTG CEO William McNeill said in a statement.

In recent years Kingstree’s business has dwindled, eclipsed by bigger firms with ever more sophisticated computer-driven trading styles. Mr. McElveen’s decision to sell the bulk of his firm’s business to a bigger firm reflects that new reality.
Financial terms weren’t disclosed. Eighteen traders and three administrative staff will shift to HTG as part of the deal.

HTG Capital Partners has operations in exchange-traded and OTC financial instruments. HTG specializes in spread trading strategies in products including futures, options, currencies and cash bonds.

 

Bone, did you not consider this could be a result of the general industry shift away from discretionary scalping to blackbox and HFT systems instead of as a judgement on Dr. Steenbarger's work? My point is that he made a direct statement here that he traded which contradicted what you claimed.

One can speculate that these shifts in technology were part of the motivation for hiring him. However, I'm not convinced of any casual association.

BTW since this thread is on trader education, can you talk about the type of statements you provide and the references? It seems you specialize in energy contracts. Do you also warehouse them? If I were to signup for your course then how am I to know your records aren't fabricated? Also, how "easy" are they to read? For someone with capital (as you have) and ability to spread trade, it seems very plausible one could create a fake real money record by hedging in a secondary account. What do you have to say to that?

Additionally, on your website you talk about scalping, swing trading, discretionary, and systematic trading. However, I get the sense from reading your posts here you only swing trade spreads using mechanical rules?

Finally, Joe Ross also makes many of the same types of claims as you make. Are you familiar with his work and how would you characterize what you offer in terms of what he teaches?

 

Lucias, Brett Steenbarger was the Director of Trader Development at Kingstree Trading, LLC from 2004 to 2008. That is a fact that he himself publishes and is definitely not a "casual observation" as you put it. During his tenure, as Director of Trader Development, the number of traders went from 60 down to 18. Again, that is a fact and not a "casual observation". Facts are stubborn things. During his tenure, he was responsible for both hiring traders and developing traders. He had direct line responsibility for steering the strategy and technology that both new hires and existing traders directed into the marketplace. That is a fact born out by his credentials and his own words in any number of industry interviews.

Let me state for the record that I will never take you on as a client.

There are over 60 ET members who have thoroughly researched my background, professional references, and client performance - and after extensive due diligence subsequently chose to hire me. For you to somehow insinuate that they missed some detail that you are so clever to expose is as ludicrous as your petty and childish commentary.

 

Well, there you have it. I gave Bone a chance to advertise his services and this what he presents: an attack on the most credible person in the industry who went on to work for one of the most prestigious hedge funds in the industry. A firm that requires no less then 500 million in under management for their traders with 5 years exceptional experience.

Good job Bone.

Of course, Bone sees anyone else as just another competitor/vendor for his $6500 bucks. lol As I eluded, a lot of these promoters do a great job of outing themselves. And the thing is Dr. Steenbarger never even took pay from individual traders. Dr. Steenbarger along with Gary Smith (How I Trade For A Living) are the two individuals I have the utmost respect for and always will.

 

Hey, bone. You remind me a lot of an ET oldtimer nicked 'riskarb'.

I'm sure it's coincidence.

 

The only thing really "outed" has been your super man-crush on Brett Steenbarger. And do you suppose the shrink is trading at the hedge fund ? Scalping index funds manually ? Taking his track record ?

Please look up the Yiddish term "Mensch". Stevie hired a Mensch who begged and pleaded on his knees. Heard all about it.

 

@AA48

But back to your question, I would focus on the basics:

Do they provide/share their name? If a vendor is unwilling to share their name in public then that would be a red flag. If someone is only hiding behind an internet alias, again that can't be anything other then a red flag.

Will they discuss what they teach and answer basic questions? Vendors who can't answer basic questions without blowing up or resorting to attacks on your character are very suspect. There is one vendor who who attacked anyone who questioned him as being a "competitor".

Those are the basics. If they get that out of the way then you need to move onto the trade statements. If they can't meet the basics then I wouldn't even bother to go to the next steps. Again, be wary of statements on their website or claims made that are not audited -- they can claim anything.

Finally, to reiterate most vendors are repacking public domain TA for thousands of dollars. Quite a few of these in futures market.

 

10 years Experience and no success? You think by taking pristine course you will learn how to trade! HA HA

Pristine course is for new traders that dosnt know the dif between bid and ask . you gotta be kidding !

 

Maybe the bottom line is in fact the bottom line. Can an educator translate whatever they are promoting into net P&L for you ?
Can you independently contact and speak with actual clients who have been utilizing the methodology in the live markets ? Converse with those clients directly without the vendor and ask your own questions ?

 

Pristine is not for people who just need to learn what the bid/ask is. They teach everything from the basics to advanced trading strategies.

If you don't believe me, check out their chat room and watch first hand what they do. You can watch a tour or sign up for a 2 week trial to the Pristine Method Trading Room at:

www.pristine.com/ToolsServices/RoomTours/pmtr.aspx