The environmental NPO I am involved in as CEO is a small one totally dedicated to putting 100% of the funds not used for fund raising into work on the ground. No salaries, no office expense or even travel, everything is donated by the officers. The others (non- enviro) here in this country and in at least two other countries pay only salaries to technical workers such as bookkeepers and computer techs. No CEO salaries whatsoever. All are members of very strict accountablilty organizations and have, over the last 50+ years, passed many millions through to needy foreign underpriviledged ethnic groups. I also donated consultant services to a very large environmental organization for a while but was so sickened by how they were handling their money and their total lack of ethics that now I am a strong critic of that whole movement. Hypocrite is fine by me but the ethics and immorality charges connected to your earlier post still stand.
Row: >I'm aware of other NPOs taking advantage of their >tax situations and yes it isn't honorable, but even if >I ever took advantage of my executive position, which >I haven't, I will still have contributed more than you. >Probably more than you ever will, or am I wrong? Let's just suppose for the sake of this discussion that you are correct in your statement that you will contribute more than me -- I don't believe that the end justifies the means. That position is one of the things that disgusts me about much of theism. and I don't respect it any more from an atheist. >If you have the right to judge me, becuase you are >super moral, tell me what acts of altruisim have you >to be proud of. I'm not going to play the "who has done/given (or will do/give the) most" game. The most altruistic acts I have seen in my life have had nothing to do with money. I gave an opinion of your NPC post and I stand by it completely. >Am I immoral? I ask you honestly. I rarely ever lie. I'm not into judging the person -- only the acts. >In my opinion, deceiving the government is moral. Let's just suppose that you are correct in that position (with me that falls into "depends"). The deception involving the donors still remains. "Depends" doesn't apply to that in my world. >How have I ever given you reason to think that >don't utterly stand by my statements? First, all statements here on ET are suspect by the nature of anonymous posting, but I have no real reason to doubt that you have started a NPC and are laughing about it in the manner you say you are ("HA HA HA suckers,"). >You and Doubter have come to the conclusion that >I'm a hypocrit when really I'm not. I have come to no such conclusion and in fact I presented my case earlier that you ARE NOT a hypocrite in this area. As I said, I find it very consistent with your selfish positions. >I would like you to acknowlege these statements >and if you have the decency to appologize please do. I would feel the need to apologize to you only if I wronged you -- and I haven't. You laughingly call the people that you are taking advantage of with your NPC "suckers" and you wish me to apologize? Forget it. >I'm more bothered by your and Doubter's slander >than any other slander I've been the victim of. Oh, poor baby -- now you're a "victim". Quit your pitiful whining and take a stand if you believe in it. >I urge you both to be honest about this as I take >it very seriously, and I'm very insulted that you're >trying to make me seem immoral when I have the >best intentions. It's quite common to be immoral with the best intentions. It gets done by religious people quite often. JB
Call me immoral, we live in an immoral society. I agree that missusung donation money is unethical. I haven't misused donation money. But in my case I have contributed 4,500 dollars and so I ask you, am I unethical or immoral? Would the world be better off without me? Logically no, I have and am doing more good than wrong. I'm consuming less than the average man, and eventually I will have done far more good with my life than the deeds of thousands of people combined. I didn't incorporate my NPO for the purpose of defrauding people. I can understand why you would consider me unethical, but you're wrong in doing so. I also find the statement accusing me of being selfish to be worthless. I think that statement is slanderours as well as your other misinformed short shighted generalizations. I urge you to explain how I'm any more selfish than you. I would guess that I'm far less selfish than every participant of this forum. If you've read my posts and understood them, you should know better than to classify me or categorize me. And you should know my passion for logic and honor. It is logical for the wellbeing of humanity to preserve our natural resources. It was unethical of me to WRITE what I did about taking the 35% as executive salary which could incite people to misuse NPOs, but on the other hand I'd rather a person incorporate a NPO and skim that 35% than not incorporate an NPO. I hope you see my logic. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote from Turok: Row: >I'm aware of other NPOs taking advantage of their >tax situations and yes it isn't honorable, but even if >I ever took advantage of my executive position, which >I haven't, I will still have contributed more than you. >Probably more than you ever will, or am I wrong? Let's just suppose for the sake of this discussion that you are correct in your statement that you will contribute more than me -- I don't believe that the end justifies the means. That position is one of the things that disgusts me about much of theism. and I don't respect it any more from an atheist. >If you have the right to judge me, becuase you are >super moral, tell me what acts of altruisim have you >to be proud of. I'm not going to play the "who has done/given (or will do/give the) most" game. The most altruistic acts I have seen in my life have had nothing to do with money. I gave an opinion of your NPC post and I stand by it completely. >Am I immoral? I ask you honestly. I rarely ever lie. I'm not into judging the person -- only the acts. >In my opinion, deceiving the government is moral. Let's just suppose that you are correct in that position (with me that falls into "depends"). The deception involving the donors still remains. "Depends" doesn't apply to that in my world. >How have I ever given you reason to think that >don't utterly stand by my statements? First, all statements here on ET are suspect by the nature of anonymous posting, but I have no real reason to doubt that you have started a NPC and are laughing about it in the manner you say you are ("HA HA HA suckers,"). >You and Doubter have come to the conclusion that >I'm a hypocrit when really I'm not. I have come to no such conclusion and in fact I presented my case earlier that you ARE NOT a hypocrite in this area. As I said, I find it very consistent with your selfish positions. >I would like you to acknowlege these statements >and if you have the decency to appologize please do. I would feel the need to apologize to you only if I wronged you -- and I haven't. You laughingly call the people that you are taking advantage of with your NPC "suckers" and you wish me to apologize? Forget it. >I'm more bothered by your and Doubter's slander >than any other slander I've been the victim of. Oh, poor baby -- now you're a "victim". Quit your pitiful whining and take a stand if you believe in it. >I urge you both to be honest about this as I take >it very seriously, and I'm very insulted that you're >trying to make me seem immoral when I have the >best intentions. It's quite common to be immoral with the best intentions. It gets done by religious people quite often.
I would guess that I'm far less selfish than every participant of this forum. rowenwood ________________________________________________ Wow! That is certainly a very unselfish statement and view of oneself.
But in my case I have contributed 4,500 dollars and so I ask you, am I unethical or immoral? rowenwood _______________________________________________ Is that per month for 30 years or more? Of course you are not as selfish as someone giving several times that amount monthly for years. Right?
__________________________________________ If you don't see the problem there you truly do have a very long way to go.
I know what you're trying to convey and I must now say, how dumb. My acts of altruism are selfish acts, as are your's. Love is selfish. Must I elaborate further. What else must I teach you, everything? Love is biblically derived banality. You're supposed to pose difficult and challenging postulations instead of misguided, misinformed, and short-sighted allusions to proverbs, instead of lines of dumbness, sentences of stupidity, and repetitions of the originally unworthy thoughts of now deceased others'. I'm not your teacher, I'm your opponent. Thus far everything you've stated has annoyed me instead of enlightened me. You're yet to write a single substantial line, and ever? I'm beginning to bore with you. If we can't get past the superficial shit, which I refuse to continue to explode for you, then I've no choice but to call you, um..... dumb. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote from Doubter: __________________________________________ If you don't see the problem there you truly do have a very long way to go. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------