Yes life in the corporate world can be a rat race but so can life as an independent trader. Three of the most consistent traders I know personally admit that they don't see themselves trading for the really long haul. They're just trying to make and save up as much money as possible to move into something else. They are very risk averse - hence they don't lose very much or very often AND they do realize that there is a tremendous amount of risk/uncertainty in trading no matter how experienced you are as markets can change drastically and thereby either significantly cutting or eliminating your profitability. Trading is a business - and as a sole proprietorship, it usually fails eventually. Primarily because: 1 You can't learn trading by yourself. How many years of trail and error are you willing to put up it. At the end of the day its all about ego: you want your own system that doesn't work rather than someone else's system that does, don't want to reach out for help, think you're smarter than everyone else, or can't afford to hire a trading mentor or coach. 2 As a sole proprietor, you're likely trading a single strategy that is likely to fall in an out of market favor. All strategies either: lose or give a sideline signal - during these times a sole proprietor is likely to lose his discipline because its all on him to pay all the bills. 3 A sole proprietor can't watch his own back or lift himself up by his own bootstraps. The greatest athletes of all time have all had coaches. What makes traders think they can go at it all alone and reach the pinnacle or stay there. Any top athlete can get knocked off the number one spot if he's not continually on the top of his game and disciplined (with a lot of help from his couch, of course). 4 No sole proprietor, faced with the daily pressure of eating what he kills everyday can control his own emotions or whatever. They are there as warning signals and trying to control and repress them only makes them stronger and sets up and even bigger drama eventually. But of course most traders are forced to be sole proprietors because most hedge funds and IB prop desks only hire: 1 Rich kids who's daddy paid for the IVY league admission with university donations, paid for the 250k tuition, and had the right connections post-graduation. 2 Uber-geeks with PHDs in physics or some science totally unrelated to econ/finance because the state of econ/finance theories in predicting and explaining market action is so dismally poor. Now I refuse to believe only rich kids and uber-geeks are cut out for the kind of trading that is sustainable for the long run - trading within an institutional context. But that's just the way it is right now, too bad. Here's another option, start you're own fund but now you have the following challenges: 1 Consensus estimates for starting a viable hedge fund is that you need 20 million dollars. And that's after taxes so good luck trying to come up with that amount of cash. 2 Every fund needs accounting, admin, and marketing resources. And if you try to do all this yourself or try to micro managed too much of it as others do it - then that can really take its toll on your trading. 3 Lots of good funds go underfunded and lots of bad funds go overfunded. That's just the way it is, funding has more to do with connections rather than performance. Now imagine a multi-strategy fund that is a true partnership between traders with good track records and enough money to invest in. You can have couple of great market makers + a couple of great trend traders + a couple of great mean reversion traders + a couple of great scalpers + a couple of mad scientists constantly devising killer algos + a couple of great value investors. Now you have a situation where you have synergies emerging and the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. The whole institution now also takes a lot of pressure off each individual trader enabling them to get more comfortable, learn more from others, and size up. When some guys fall behind, others pick of the slack and vice versa. And when some strategies go out of favor for years, those traders can learn other strategies directly from other traders. Learning happens best in person from a master, not by reading books or googling. And with that many traders the admin, accounting, and marketing is a lot more manageable in house during periods when traders get the sideline signal. That's really the only way I see myself trading for the long run. Until then I'll be content running the corporate rat race as fast and hard as I can cause it'll only motivate me to take my swing trading/investing to a whole other level so I can buy a Quiznos (LOL). No, seriously I'd like to pursue trading for the long run but only in an institutional context.
You have nailed it!!! This is so true. You really don't have any friends in your corporate jail cell. I am perfect example of it. A guy that I gave free golf to at my club and thought was a loyal friend, turned on me when he thought he could get a promotion by being a mean SOB and backstabbed me all the way out of the office. His actions basically cost me my job. You have ZERO friends if you belong to a corporate prison. I am so anti-corporate right now that I feel like those fugitives that go off on police chases to avoid going to prison. I would almost rather do anything than go back to that misery.
No offense but that makes no sense. Everyone who trades that I know likes to trade. have you found people who trade who hate to trade??? Are you saying that anyone who likes what they do need a lot of satisfaction towards their ego??
This thread has been eye-opening. I think the bottom line is that all fields of work are highly competitive so you just need to do what you love to do. I'm realizing after a year of doing this that if I put the same effort I put into trading, into my studies or activities that will carry over into my field, I could be at the tippy-top of my class. (I'm a mechanical engineering student) This field is something that I really like for what it is, not just for the money like trading for me. The fact that I can still make plenty enough money to make me happy is a nice perk. Because of this, I'm hanging up the day-trading hat at the end of this summer break. I'll still swing and position trade stocks and possibly futures, but the hours of sitting in front of the screen watching charts are done.
Well that was fast..in fact it's a new record for the shortest time I ever held a job!. From 7 days, now down to 4.5hrs. Not something I'm very proud of, but once I got bit by the trading bug I dont want to do anything else. Telemarketing sucks ass!!. My employer is like, "yeah, we have guys here who make 400-600 a week"..I never really believed that shit to begin with, but its a simple job mostly done by a computer. The office was located down town in a run down office building, with rows and rows of computers from the early 90's. I cant do a job that I dont have an inner satisfaction with. (sigh). I thought I'd just rake in commissions from all the calls I'd make. I made over 275 calls and only had one sale for 25 dollars. Eff that.
<i>Quote from michaelscott: How is the quality of life that great as a daytrader? </i> To me, there is no better feeling in the entire world than putting on huge positions and having everything work out perfectly for a six-figure winning day. Absolutely nothing else can beat that thrill... Nothing!
What ever happened to two hookers, blowjobs, and the coke during that trade? I thought that was the best.