My version of predestination does let everybody off the hook, freeing all the "slaves to sin". But my version of salvation is very different than Calvin or Augustine. In my version of salvation, the only thing being saved is Christ. This means that no people will be saved. No Jews, no Greeks, no men, no women. Nobody. People are part of the problem and represent a damned Christ...dying for a damned Christ. If people were to disappear forever, it would return Christ to Christ's normal state of being, which is the experience of Self-As-Heaven. Once you can accept this, the theo-logical problems of Calvin's predestination theories are solved. As long as people are part of the equation, theology will perpetuate damnation...the damnation of Christ. It's true enough: the damned don't really have free will. The damned, who substitute for Christ, are "slaves to sin"...which means they have no free will. It appears the damned make choices, but they don't. There is only one choice still open for the damned to choose, which does not involve slavery to a determined existence: the damned can choose to return to Christ: AS CHRIST. This let's the damned off the hook for everything they seem to have done. At this point, the world of people fades into a distant memory, and finally, from memory itself. Poof! It's gone. Why? Because the world of people does not exist in the first place. A world of people was a thought experiment than never went beyond conjecture. A world of people never reaches the point of reality, and remains not more important than a distant dream. Technically, nothing actually happened. But while things seem to happen, all happenstance is pre-scripted; pre-determined; fore-told. Likewise, the choice to return to Christ is also a matter of DESTINY. This is a lot like UNIVERSAL SALVATION. Thing is, Christ is the true UNIVERSE, which again, is the only thing being saved.
Another possibility is the role of Christ is to lead or release the theists of various religions (including the atheists who believe strongly in a no-God religion), who are slaves of their old God concepts according to their old/outdated books, passing/bypassing the virtual Red Sea of many old/outdated books, to become new (a)theists, who believe/follow the universal/natural laws (the Spirit) of the Universe/Nature which is the true God. Everyone and everything is always part of God - the Nature. Jesus surely is part of God! Science is a never-ending process developed to help people understand more and more about God/Nature! Truly free! Salvation! A new world of new books for new knowledge and new things is to be created and enjoyed by all people, aka new (a)theists! True Peace! No more religious wars! No more conflicts among religious people of various religions! Heaven! That was Jesus' vision! He was this Christ! Jesus should be a role across all religions! Christianity cannot own Jesus exclusively! And Jesus died for all of that! Because people didn't/don't understand, then and now! Just 2 cents!
my guess is Jesus was able to say the same thing as yours, and then do nothing about it. But he didn't! He genuinely care about his people passionately. He wisely decided and chose to perform his visionary job. With noble and calculated acts, and extremely painful performance! He and his associates was trying to fulfill their people's expectations for the scriptural role of Christ, in order to save their life, spiritually, emotionally and physically, releasing their long time burden/desire to become a free man individually. Instead of simply just telling people repeatedly that the character is completely fictional. Because either way, maybe his fate would be about the same during his era - execution! My 2 cents again!
desperate troll move number 8 featured by stu... take snipets of conversations and change their context. you are so full of troll crap. but even in your first reply... we see you are wrong. We really don't know what is outside of our universe. There could be that universes version of time or perhaps there is no time. Why you insist on acting like you know something is beyond me.
we have had this argument before. there are 2 passages about Jesus in Josephus. One of the passages is virtually undisputed. That makes Jesus a historical figure pretty much by definition.
According to you, "There could be that universes version of time.." is a non sequitur Still contradicting yourself after all these years and still can't see it, or just in a constant state of denial. Amazing. However, a version of time is still...... time ...or nothing happens.