Pre-market ArcaEdge order on IB?

Discussion in 'Order Execution' started by rayl, Apr 17, 2007.

  1. rayl


    I've asked this via ticket but thought someone here may know the answer.

    Does anyone know how to enter a pre-market ArcaEdge order (for OTC BB stocks) on IB?

    When I tested directing an order to ARCAEDGE before the open of the regular session, it showed status blue (received but not yet working) and strangely enough continued to show status blue even after the normal session started! (I suspect this is a bug somewhere.)

    Directing an order to ARCAEDGE during the regular session works and shows up in the ArcaBook as expected.

    I note from the NYSE ArcaEdge web page that:

    DAY+ An order to buy or sell that will be eligible for display and execution during the pre-market (8:00 a.m. to 9:30 a.m. ET) and core trading (9:30 a.m. to 4:01 p.m. ET) sessions.

    But is there a way to create a DAY+ order in TWS?

  2. samaritan

    samaritan Interactive Brokers

    It used to be the case that ARCAEDGE charged an exorbitant amount of money to take liquidity. So we did not allow marketable orders to go there. It looks like the fee for taking liquidity is now .003 for stocks >= $1 and 30 basis points of trade value otherwise.
    We will reconfigure our routing alg to allow the taking of liquidity at ARCAEDGE.
  3. rayl


    Great -- so once this is reconfigured, will all SMART routed and ArcaEdge routed orders qualify for pre-market or will there be a way to set a special TIF or other flag for that?

    So, can I cajole you guys into offering Market Depth display for ArcaEdge as well? I was told that ArcaBook data sub doesn't include OTC BB... (It gives me a permission error on ARCAEDGE STK/Deep/OTCBB whereas Market Depth works fine on listed issues at ARCA.)
  4. samaritan

    samaritan Interactive Brokers

    They should all qualify. No special TIF needed.
    I will check on the market depth.
    It will be reconfigured today for tomorrow's trading.
  5. rayl


    Got it. Wonderful. And just to be doubly-certain that there aren't really two ArcaEdge routing issues: My test orders which failed to show on ArcaEdge pre-market were clearly liquidity adding (buys way below market) and not liquidty taking.

  6. vikana

    vikana Moderator

    You have to set the time flag to "GTC". If you pick "DAY" it will not activate until the regular NYSE hours.
  7. samaritan

    samaritan Interactive Brokers

    Was there ArcaEdge market data on the other side of your order?
    If so, then it would point to another issue.
  8. rayl


    At the time of my test, the ArcaBook as shown on did have at least one entry on either side of the market. I used the arcavision site as the reference bec Market Depth gives me permission denied for ArcaEdge Stk/Deep/OTCBB (which I was told is bec IB won't do depth for ArcaEdge, just Arca, with ArcaBook data sub).

    Now taht you mentioned it, I am now wondering if it's related to the bulletin about order routing issues bec when the bulletin came out that all is resolved, my Blue status order @ ArcaEdge placed pre-nomral open turned Green at about that same time.
  9. rayl


    I am still quite confused about ArcaEdge and pre-market orders.

    Unfortunately this morning, I don't have a real stock in mind to test (that is, one I know with activity and is reflecting active quotes in the ArcaBook -- yesterday I had such a candidate.)

    So, I picked a random OTCBB stock I owned and transmitted both day & GTC (another suggestion) orders outside the market shortly after 8AM, the start of the ArcaEdge pre-market session. (And verified that "allow to be filled only during regular trading hours" is unchecked, which is the default for me.)

    Both are showing as status blue and do not show up in the ArcaBook.

    A smart routed day order also shows blue.

    I also tested an NMS stock to Arca with a day order -- that shows Green immediately.

    Though the ArcaEdge book isn't showing anything for my test company, the OTC BB montage is showing many quotes on both sides of the market, so, if it were the become marketable, the 3 quote rule is easily met.

    The bottom line is: I still don't know how to get an order in an OTC BB stock working pre-market on IB.

    This is something I really want to figure out before the next important news event in an OTC BB company I follow.

    Any words of wisdom?

  10. rayl


    I am now convinced either it's a bug in IB or there must be something else I need to do to make my orders visible pre-market.

    Because in my test security CAMH, I see there is now a single entry in the ArcaBook on the other side of the market at ArcaEdge.

    See the screenshot at 9:26AM. Green circled items indicate that the ArcaBook order is showing in both ArcaBook and in IB quotes. Orange circle shows my order sent to ArcaEdge but not working.

    And interestingly at 9:32AM ET, shortly after the normal market open, my order showed up in the ArcaBook, so it looks a lot like the order is not being marked as eligible for the premarket session when it was sent to ArcaEdge. I will open a ticket on this.
    #10     Apr 18, 2007