Pre-born infants

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by BloodTrader, Jan 22, 2008.

  1. That's what the anti-abortion whackos are calling even the earliest stage embryos now. They'll extend it to eggs soon I guess. Then we can start punishing menstruating women. If you have a miscarriage, it's the death penalty for you.
  2. your melodrama doesn't help... clear heads clear thinking does

    a cell is alive, and an ever increasing mass of cells racing towards consciousness even more so.

    so, at what point do you call 'it' life? or better yet, explain why YOU BELIEVE that the millisecond just preceding 'ALIVE' is not alive and may be destroyed at the whim of the host? (or host's worthless boyfriend)?
  3. Wackos - funny, the rhetoric from the anti-life side always manages to avoid the mention the life inside of them. From the NOW website:

    · Reproductive justice ensures that women are healthy, both physically and emotionally; that they can make decisions about their bodies and sexuality free from government interference; and that they have the economic resources to plan their own families. A woman's well-being requires self-determination, equality, and the respect and support of her society.
    · NOW believes in a comprehensive approach to achieving reproductive justice for all women—including winning and preserving legal protections, expanding reproductive health services in every community, and ending the discrimination and inequality that keep women from controlling their own reproductive lives.
    · Constitutional protections alone cannot ensure accessible and affordable reproductive health services for all women. In a political environment hostile to reproductive rights, a number of women—especially young women, women of color, poor women, immigrant women and women with disabilities—are unable to access abortion, birth control, pre-natal care, maternity leave, child care and other crucial health and family services.
    · Reproductive empowerment and economic status are closely connected. Women living in poverty, even those just getting by, often lack health insurance and face other barriers to reproductive services. Without adequate income and health care, many women find it almost impossible to protect their health and provide for their families. In addition, an unplanned or forced pregnancy can push a woman even further into economic peril.
    · Women must be trusted to make the best decisions for themselves. NOW is working to stop doctors, hospitals and the government from forcing unwanted and unnecessary reproductive procedures on women, such as sterilization or cesarean sections. At the same time, women must not be denied life- and health-preserving services, including certain abortion procedures as well as screening and treatment for breast cancer, cervical cancer, HIV and other diseases.
    · In the struggle for reproductive justice, women will not truly be free until they are well-informed, able to access a full range of health services, and empowered economically, socially and politically. Only then can women take full control of their bodies and their lives.

    Funny thing. At the end of life, the Lord of Hosts has a place reserved for the child killers and those who support it. The laughing and self-righteousness will end. There will only be a horrible realization of what has really occurred. There is no debate. And regardless of the reaction to this statement, it really makes no difference. The furnace will glow white hot and the suffering will never end for those that cause and support the murder of some 1.2+ million innocent souls a year in this country.
  4. 45 million deaths of underdeveloped humans over a 30 year period.

    These deaths are decisions made by individuals under the guidance of appointed judges.

    If these deaths were direct state actions it would be among the worst case of genocide in human history.
  5. The what?

    Typical far-right evangelism. These are the same people who tell me that if I don't accept Jesus Christ as my personal saviour, I will burn in a lake of fire and brimstone ('the furnace will glow white hot'!!).

    Ummm... HELLO. Your little religion is just one of many, faithmonger. Don't push your faith-informed views on me. It takes courage to defend any woman's right to choose her own destiny even if you would not knowingly endorse the termination of a pregnancy that you, as a man, had engendered. I wouldn't want any woman who got pregnant by me to have an abortion, faithmonger. But I have the balls and the moral compass to stand up and say that any woman can choose her own fate. It's her body and maybe she doesn't share your narrow, faith-informed radical Christian Lord-of-Hosts fundamentalist 'views'.

    Defending freedom is hard. Caving in to faith-informed zealotry is so easy.

    Lord of Hosts, is it? You should hook up with another ET faithmonger called ZZZzzzzzzz, who believes in some far-right Christian notion of 'Magistrates materialized out of pure potentiality'. I am sure you two could have a nice seance.

    Meanwhile, take your 'views' which in 200 years will seem as logical to people of that time as witchcraft seems to us.

    ...errr, oops. Maybe you believe in witches as well!!

    It wouldn't surprise me in the least. Ghosts and Goblins too.
  6. Does a man who is the "engendered" have a choice, or can a woman simply abort every conception at will. Maybe she wants to live off the assets of a man but not commit to a family.
    Seems you also need to "defend freedoms" of the man.

    By the way you are also protecting the woman’s right to 2 choices.
    First choice is not to avoid pregnancy, then once she "chooses" to risk pregnancy then you provide her a second choice to destroy the embryo.
  7. Some perspective here...

    People literally "know not what they do".
    The concept of choice is way overblown.
    Choice is an illusion in a world in which
    all choices have been scripted into a closed system.
    Women, and men for that matter, aren't really
    making choices,
    and they aren't really free.
    There is a major misunderstanding about what
    the world is, and what it is for.
    Once understood, it's possible to forgive.
    Until it is understood, it is impossible to forgive, ie. rcanfiel.

  8. Religions are manmade. Opinions are unmerited. But, you will have your opportunity.
  9. I just wouldn't even know where to start to point out the flaws in this thinking, so I'm not going to try. Suffice it to say that you're obviously a man's man who believe that a woman's place is in the home, serving the man just like the bible says. I'm not like you; I have this weird idea that women are actually the equal of men.

    Sorry, a few years ago I would have become involved here, but I don't do it anymore. rcanfiel's post just pissed me off because of it's arrogant and self-serving nature. Note his reply to me; did you expect anything different?

    I'll leave you to your ministrations.
  10. You are pissed off. And your reply was typical. Regarding this life, you don't know where you came from. You don't know why you are here. You have little clue about how the universe or anything else workls. You want to make money and better yourself. You don't where you will go when you die.

    When confronted with truth, you give the typical cookie cutter answers, even though you likely never spent much time on an objective approach to biblica christianity.

    You are like the clueless man at the bar in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. As the summary says, "Mere seconds before the Earth is to be demolished by an alien construction crew, journeyman Arthur Dent is swept off the planet by his friend Ford Prefect." Ford and Arthur go to a bar, and Ford tells everyone the Earth is about to be destroyed. The clueless man asks if it will help to put a bag over his head, and Ford says "no." The man puts a bag over his head anyway.

    Your points:

    "Typical far-right evangelism. " (as if you know anything?)

    "if I don't accept Jesus Christ as my personal saviour, I will burn in a lake of fire and brimstone " (partly true, but you reject it, precisely as scripture says you will. The reality is that no one comes to Christ, as they are spiritually dead and so refuse. Pretty much every description in scripture about who comes, does so due to a direct action from God - (Paul, the disciples ("you did not choose me, I chose you") the entire Old Testament - Israel is God's "chosen people" the 3000 and following souls who came on the day of pentecost (and God was adding daily to those who were being save, etc. etc..)).

    "Your little religion is just one of many, faithmonger" (empty statement - you say this, but have no clue about whether christianity or anything else is true. You view everything through your horrendously mortal, very limited view, which is entirely based on your opinions. Of course, your opinion is not what the earth, mankind, the universe, or anything else is founded.)

    "It takes courage to defend any woman's right to choose" (you will have your opportunity to say that directly to God when your brief miniscule earthly visit is over. Unfortunately, your opinion carries no weight there.)

    "your narrow, faith-informed radical Christian Lord-of-Hosts fundamentalist 'views'. (since you know nothing about what is true in this life or beyond, except based on your little pile of opinion shells on your little beach, this is about an empty a statement as you could manage. I am unmoved by viewpoitns from the blind)

    "Defending freedom is hard" ( you confuse freedom with blindness. The baby recieves no freedom, but death.

    "take your 'views' which in 200 years will seem as logical to people of that time as witchcraft seems to us." (funny, these views go back over 3000 years, without modification. The rest of the world continues to gyrate, looking for something to found itself upon. Meanwhile, your views are founded on dust, your very limited understanding of all things, your misguided idea that your know more than anyone else when as said before, you dont know your origin, your purpose, your destiny, nor anything else that has traction.)

    "Maybe you believe in witches as well!!" (Well, you seem pretty spellbound. You stand firm on quicksand, and probably think science is the be all and end all. the scripture has 3000 year old roots that do not change. Science is still careening, trying to constantly adjust its paradigm everything everytime a visit to another planetary moon, the ocean bottom. It is not surprising that just a couple of decades ago, science realized that what they saw (baryonic entities like stars, etc.) was perhaps only 5% of all things. Dark matter and dark energy (still not understood) were suddenly conjured up by the science community to explain it. (the dark arts, perhaps?). Yes, something is likely there, but your scientific foundation was clueless to the probable existence of over 90% of the universe. We now have a magical 11-dimensional universe (sorry, multiverse, possibly infinite number of universes, with us in a different instantaneous state in each one, to cover every possible). Even some cosmologists are questioning the explanations they come up with, as they seem to have no relation to reality. Witchcraft? head down to your physics department... By the way, I am a scientist by education and by hobby. But it is obvious that you have no clue about anything, and cling to your opinions, right or wrong.
    #10     Jan 24, 2008