I was speaking to Slugar ===================== Pissing you off (DB) I couldn't care less Btw (DB) - have a PnL today I certainly do.. ========== KP has plenty of good help - now RN
That's very nice. Not pertinent to the thread, but very nice. What is pertinent is that we did in fact fail to hold above 4040 and are currently at 3952.
Oh my.. somehow I didn't get the emails that this thread was updated so its been an interesting read now after the fact. I am a little surprised, in a nice way I guess, that I have been brought into this. What Db says right here is in fact my down fall. I haven't done the research myself so that I can feel confident to put on a trade, and more importantly, hold it. Perhaps if I paid Db money I would feel as if he should sit beside me and help me through my fears, but lets face it, we are two strangers on the internet. If this argument in the thread is about the merits of Price Action trading, then I think this is something a person has to prove for himself. Either he sees what's going on or he doesn't. Blotto, I am a bit surprised that with your deep understanding of the markets that you cannot see how following price is of utmost importance. How else can we evaluate what something is worth unless we track what people are willing to pay for it? There are a million reasons why prices go up or down so its impossible to forecast, but its pretty obvious at the end of the day if more people wanted to buy than to sell. The trick of course is training yourself what you need to see before it happens so you can get into the move, and this is exactly what ND emphasizes. If this argument is about me, I truly think that Db, having been at this for so long sees that you can only help a trader so much. "You can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink". Db, although he understands the importance of psychology, doesn't ever really get into it too much. His posts are mostly about the technique, and I think most traders who have been around long enough realize that the trader is the bigger part of this trading game than technique. He understands fear, but its far too complex of a factor to solve over the internet. I fully understand where Db is coming from and I appreciate the help he gives. ND provides a nice compliment because she has analyzed this game down to the tick. Toucan and bh_prop are also pushing me on the importance of the trading plan, and Alpha Trader has been providing amazing charts in my journal to show the big picture. All of these guys are talking the same language so surely they aren't all wrong. Blotto, I do appreciate the fact that you're fighting on my behalf, I really do. But you will never get statements from Db. His core belief, which you have to respect him for, is that there is nothing like proving it to yourself. "Bring a man a fish, you feed him for a day, but teach and man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime". I think this sums it up well. I find with most "snakeoil" salesmen, they focus on selling you a dream, they talk about the riches you can have and such. Db never focuses on the money, he won't even say how many points he made in a day, never mind the number of contracts he trades. He is quick to point out that was is possible in the markets is an individual result that only that one trader can attain, so his results don't matter one bit and in no way benefit the trader trying to learn. I just don't see enough evidence that what he is doing somehow shows that he is trying to take advantage of new traders.
I'm not sure why you were brought into this either. Perhaps some saw your continuing struggle and believed that I had abandoned you. If so, they don't know that months ago I said that there was nothing more to be done unless and until you characterized your market, put together a set of metrics that could be used for decision-making, and wrote a trading plan. And that remains the case. I said back then that I didn't understand why you continue to trade even though none of this has been done. And that it hasn't been done leaves you as vulnerable as one can be to all the fears that the market and trading can trigger. If one has done the research and testing and has built his database, has characterized the market he wants to trade, and has developed a thoroughly-tested and consistently-profitable trading plan, there is nothing to be afraid of. However, I can't force anyone to do any of these things. Consequently, there's nothing I can do to assuage their fears: one cannot just skip this part. The worst thing I could do is encourage you to continue to trade without having done this work. My advice to anyone in your position, and there are a great many, just as many as there have always been, is to stop trading and do the grunt work first. Otherwise the fears simply feed on themselves to no useful purpose.
And we continue to fall. If we do not return to the mean, the lower limit of the trend channel is now at about 3790. I hope that someone can make use of this information.
From what I have read of your SLA approach, it has seemed to me that most of the "grunt" work has been done. It looks as though it is as near a mechanical approach to trading price as one could get. What am I missing? Why do people seem to have such a difficult time applying this approach?