You appear to misunderstand what I wrote: Refugees and exiles are returning to Iraq and Afghanistan in the millions - it's hard to offer any other reasonable explanation for the phenomenon other than that they think they have a chance to build better lives for themselves following the removal of those odious regimes on whose behalf you and your allies are always arguing.
People who were afraid of war, leave the country, to return after the war. What other country was offering them a future? Who wouldn't go back to where they used to live, if there was no where else to live but a refugee camp? Hardly the ringing endorsement of "liberation" you suggest.
I'll tell you who wouldn;t go back...al the Iraqi exiles here in the USA ...although they are free, they won't give up the lifestyle or guaranteed freedoms of America..
Quote from Freddie N.: Refugees and exiles are returning to Iraq and Afghanistan in the millions - it's hard to offer any other reasonable explanation for the phenomenon other than that they think they have a chance to build better lives for themselves following the removal of those odious regimes on whose behalf you and your allies are always arguing. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Iraqis, Afghans in Iran stripped of refugee status TEHRAN, May 27 (AFP) - Iran has decided to strip hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans in the country of their refugee status, an official said Tuesday, with about 200,000 Iraqis set to begin returning home next week. Ahmad Hosseini, the interior ministry's director of refugee affairs, told reporters that Afghans and Iraqis who sought refuge in the Islamic republic would now be classed as migrants in the wake of the conflicts in their home countries. "Therefore the Iranian government has the right to expel them," he warned. "More than 200,000 Iraqi refugees will start to return back to Iraq via Basra early next week, with the help of the United Nations," he added, stressing that the security of the returnees would be guaranteed. As for the return of Afghans still in Iran -- estimated to number up to two million -- Hosseini said the repatriation operation would likely take until March 2005. Since the ouster of Afghanistan's Taliban regime in November 2001, around 500,000 Afghans have already been repatriated. Of those, about 100,000 tried to re-enter the Islamic republic but were arrested and expelled, he said. Pakistan: Focus on Afghan repatriation numbers PESHAWAR, 18 December (IRIN) - Muhammad Ibrahim, a 20-year-old Afghan refugee, checks his luggage before jumping aboard a colourful truck as he prepares to leave the Takhtabaig voluntary repatriation centre (VRC) near Peshawar, capital of Pakistan's North West Frontier Province (NWFP), for the eastern Afghan city of Jalalabad. As the year draws to a close and winter sets in, returnee numbers have tailed off. But some families are still deciding that there's no time like the present to make the move from Pakistan. "I have never lived in Afghanistan, but I am optimistic about surviving there," he told IRIN. Ibrahim's family is one of the few visiting this Takhtabaig VRC to get help with the move back home to Afghanistan. A huge drop in repatriation has emptied the corridors of this centre. The office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) told IRIN about ten families a day were currently crossing, compared with thousands just a few months ago. The harsh Afghan winter is the major reason for the decline in repatriations, in conjunction with uncertain security conditions, unemployment, lack of infrastructure and a lack of health and education services. "Now a very small number of people are going back. Winter is holding back refugees here," Ali Gohar Khan, an official with Pakistan's Commissionarte for Afghan Refugees, a UNHCR partner in repatriation, told IRIN in Takhtabaig. "Everything was crowded but now you can see its all empty," he said. But today's trickle should not mask the fact that it has been a monumental year for UNHCR and other refugee assistance agencies - more than 1.5 million Afghans returned to their country earlier this year following the fall of the Taliban and the emergence of the interim government. According to UNHCR, as of 28 November it assisted 1,562,862 returnees. This far exceeded the 400,000 from Pakistan whose resettlement UNHCR had initially planned for, and resulted in a reduction in the amount of assistance available for the returnees inside Afghanistan. The mostly lower income urban refugees crossed into Afghanistan from the Pakistani cities of Peshawar, Quetta in the southwest, the southern seaport of Karachi and the national capital Islamabad. Kabul, the central Afghan province, remained their favourite destination followed by the eastern Afghan province of Nangarhar. Despite this encouraging development, nearly two million Afghans remain in Pakistan. Islamabad is pressing for a long-term solution to their presence. As the Afghan minister for refugees and repatriation concluded a five-day visit to Pakistan over the weekend, the two countries were soon expected to sign a tripartite agreement, together with UNHCR, on a framework for the voluntary repatriation over a three-year period of the remaining Afghans still living in Pakistan. But refugees are concerned that the agreement could lead to them being pushed out of Pakistan prematurely. Such considerations were voiced by some Afghan refugee elders at a meeting with the Afghan minister, Enayatollah Nazeri, in Peshawar during his visit. "We don't believe in promises, we want action [on reconstruction and developmnet] now," Lajbar Khan, one of the elders who attended the meeting, told IRIN. "We will never refuse to go back to our homeland, but we will only do so when we have the assurance that we will never be forced to come to Pakistan again," he said. Returning to Afghanistan remains a long-standing dream for many. Ibrahim visited Jalalabad last month to assess the prospects for the return of his eight-member family, whom he has been supporting since his father's death recently. "I know it will be difficult, but one day we will have to go to our homeland," he said. "I will have a shop and will work again in my fields." But many Afghans in Pakistan do not share such optimism. And the winter has seen the inevitable return across the 2400-km-long porous border of some of those who packed their bags for Kabul earlier this year. Sharifa, a 28-year-old Afghan schoolteacher, is back in Peshawar after struggling for survival in the populous Afghan capital, Kabul, for 10 months. "There was no security, and my salary was not sufficient even for heating," she told IRIN. Earning some US $40 a month, Sharifa had been unable to adequately support her four children and unemployed husband. "[Afghan President] Hamid Karzai promised us many things, but failed to deliver," she said, adding that many families she knew were regretting their decision to go back to Afghanistan. Sharifa now shares a two-roomed run-down rented house with her mother and three brothers in a squalid narrow street of a crowded Peshawar suburb. "It's still better here, because its warm, you can work and you are safe," she said. Local businessmen in Peshawar confirmed the trend. Muhammadi Khan, a property agent in the city's fashionable Hayatabad area, told IRIN that although rents had not risen, most of the houses in the locality remained occupied, whereas Hayatabad had been half deserted immediately after the refugee exodus. "I have again seen many people who went to Afghanistan and are now back looking for accommodation here," he said. UNHCR closed its three repatriation centres towards the end of September as returnee levels dropped. But when winter turns to spring numbers are expected to rapidly rise, and there is a hope that people like Sharifa will have the resources to stay this time. "We will go back if it's safe and we have something to live on," she said. The agency is now undertaking a survey to assess the numbers of Afghans willing to return next year. "It's intended to identify those who want to go back, and their needs for successful reintegration," a UNHCR spokesman, Jack Redden, told IRIN in Peshawar.
I think this is a bogus story....Iran closed it's borders to prevent taking in these refugees if I recall
Please check your facts. Huge percentages of the populations of Iraq and Afghanistan were already refugees or exiles long before the US launched military action. Fearing new waves of refugees as a result of the wars, international organizations created large refugee camps and undertook urgent preparation for the humanitarian catastrophes they believed were imminent. The US also prepared to handle any such events. To a large extent, these camps and preparations for catastrophe went unused. Those returning to Afghanistan and Iraq are to a very large extent people who had already fled months, years, or even decades ago.
"Promise wonders. Deliver miracles." -- Freddie N. Logical Confirmation of Miracles. The logic behind a miracle being used to confirm a religious truth claim goes like this: 1. If a theistic God exists, then miracles are possible. 2. A miracle is a special act of God. 3. God is the source and standard of all truth; he cannot err. 4. Nor would a theistic God act to confirm something as true that was false. 5. Therefore, true miracles in connection with a message confirm that message to be from God: (a) The miracle confirms the message. (b) The sign confirms the sermon. (c) An act of God confirms the Word of God. (d) New revelation needs new confirmation. If there is an all-powerful, all-good, and all-wise God, then it follows that he would not perform a miraculous act to confirm a lie. Since miracles are by nature special acts of God, God would not act contrary to his own nature. The God of all truth would not miraculously confirm error. Hence, when a truth claim is repeatedly confirmed by miracles, such as the Old Testament prophets, Jesus, and the New Testament apostles did, then it is true and all opposing views are false. Criteria for Confirmation. Several criteria can be established, on the basis of principles discussed above, for allowing miracles as a confirmation of a truth claim. These are criteria for apologetically valuable miracles. They all assume miracles to be possible. Confirming miracles should be: ⢠Connected with a Truth Claim ⢠Truly Supernatural ⢠Unique ⢠Multiple ⢠Predictive Connected with a Truth Claim. Not all supernatural events are connected with truth claims. There was no truth claim announced of which the acts of creation are evidence. Neither was there a lesson taught by the translation of Enoch to heaven (Genesis 5), the plagues on the king who took Abrahamâs wife (Genesis 12), the manna from heaven (Exodus 16), Samsonâs supernatural feats (Judges 14-16), or the resurrection of the man who touched Elishaâs bones (2 Kings 13). Most miracles are connected with a person who is thereby shown to be a prophet of God. But these acts lack direct apologetic value without the specific claim of prophethood and a message from God. Truly Supernatural. A miracle is truly supernatural, as opposed to an anomaly, magic, a psychosomatic cure, or even a special act of providence. None of these involve true supernatural intervention. All can be explained by natural means, even if they are at times very unusual and though they are used by God. One characteristic of a supernatural event is that it is immediate, rather than gradual. It is an irregular and naturally unrepeatable event. It is successful every time it is attempted by God or a person he empowers. Unique. Hume argued that an alleged supernatural event cannot support one religious claim as long as a contradictory claim is made by another who can perform the same kind of alleged miracles. Similar competing miracles are self-canceling. Logically, from a theistic standpoint, it is impossible for true miracles to confirm contradictory claims, since a true miracle is an act of God, who cannot confirm what amounts to a lie (Heb. 6:18; cf. Titus 1:2). Multiple. As Deuteronomy 17:6 put it, "In the mouth of two or three witnesses, every word shall be established." Multiple witnesses are better than one. In fact, in crucial life-and-death legal matters multiple testimony is often mandatory. One miracle leaves room for doubt. Hence, apologetically relevant miracles should be multiple. Predictive. Another characteristic often connected with a confirming miracle is that it is often predicted. While this is not essential, it is helpful. It eliminates charges that the miraculous event is not connected with the truth claim. Otherwise, it might be viewed as a fluke. For example, if a false teacher was teaching along the shores of the Sea of Galilee as Jesus walked by on the water, Jesusâ walking should not have been taken as a confirmation of the false teacherâs views. On many occasions in the Bible, Jesus and other prophets predicted and performed miracles that confirmed their claims. Jesus predicted his resurrection from early in his ministry on (Matt. 12:40; 17:22-23; 20:18-19; John 2:19-22). He explicitly predicted the resurrection as a "sign" (miracle) of his claims (Matt. 12:39-40). Once Jesus emphatically said ahead of time that a miracle would be evidence of his claim to be the Messiah: "âBut that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins,â he said to the paralytic, âI tell you, get up, take your mat and go homeâ" (Mark 2:10-11). In the Old Testament miracles were often announced in advance. Elijah predicted the fire from heaven to consume the sacrifice (1 Kings 18:22f.). Moses promised supernatural judgments of God on Egypt (Exod. 4:21-23). Moses announced that the rod would bud (Num. 17:5) and that the rebellious Korah would be judged (Num. 16:28-30). Conclusion. Even Flew would not claim that his argument eliminates the possibility of miracles. He does believe it seriously cripples Christian apologetics. If miracles cannot be identified as supernatural events, they have no real apologetic value. A merely unusual event within nature can prove nothing beyond nature. However, Christian apologists can evade this problem by either presupposing the existence of God or by offering evidence independent of miracles for his existence. For as long as there is a God who can act, then special acts of God (miracles) are possible and identifiable. The only way to disprove this possibility is to disprove the possibility of Godâs existence. But such attempts are notoriously unsuccessful and self-refuting. Not only can miracles confirm a truth claim, but biblical miracles fit all the criteria for such apologetically valuable miracles. No other religion or claimants to truth contradictory to Christianity have offered verified examples of truly supernatural events. We can conclude that biblical miracles, and they alone, support the truth claims of Christ and the biblical prophets. Christianity alone is a supernaturally confirmed religion.
W promised a wonder - the disarmament of Saddam W delivered a miracle - the liberation & democratization of Iraq who is W - Freddie N. or God ?