position trading questions?

Discussion in 'Professional Trading' started by mbs, Mar 20, 2002.

  1. mbs


    new at this so hope u'll forgive any protocol slips...

    i would like to position trade equities for a firm...i have been doing so for several years for myself (2001 40%, 2002 25% thus far)...i do not normally daytrade (unless i have a windfall, in which case i take the profits)
    are there firms that will offer leverage to successful position traders..offering a professional environment, good execution, back office, etc on a percentage of profits basis?

    thank you.
  2. There are firms that will give you 100% of the profits, 10 to 1 leverage(maybe less,maybe more), and a $10,000 minimum deposit on your part.Echotrade is one of them.
  3. mbs


    thank you for the information.

  4. mbs,

    Position trading has the risk of holding postions overnight in uncertain market conditions. I assume you are a swing trader or you are holding postions longer and you have an exit strategy. While we do give leverage to daytraders, less leverage is given to traders for overnights(usually 5 to 1 and concentration risk requirements). If you want to make a living position trading, you
    will need a lot more than $10,000, unless we are in a rip roaring bull market.

    If you are a position trader, you do not need a direct access firm ,
    unless you are "day trading" against your positions. I would advise against overleveraging overnight positions. Leverage is to be used and not abused. Overnight leverage will multiply your gains as well as your loses.

    Gene Weissman
    Lieber & Weissman Sec., L.L.C.
  5. ktm


    I believe a prop firm will make you daytrade. Try them out and please report back here if I am wrong. They won't make enough from you if you do not generate significant commissions for them. If they don't "make" you do it, they will likely create a situation where it doesn't make sense to use them. Like I said, I may be wrong about this but I haven't heard of one yet that actually allows medium term equity trading.
  6. ktm,

    I can only speak for myself, but we do not support leveraged position traders. The risk(and reward) for the firm is really not there. 60% of our traders are flat at night unless they hold hedged(Synthetic Call, Put ,Conversion's) or approved match pair positions.

    Gene Weissman
    Lieber & Weissman Sec., L.L.C.
  7. tntneo

    tntneo Moderator

    on the other hand ktm, do you need a prop firm to do position trading ?
    unless the trader is actually seeking very high leverage (basically not wanting to risk his own money), and then, you can't really blame the firm.

    there are all kind of ways to make money on the market. but each one requires the right tool imo.
  8. ktm



    IMO, you do not need a prop firm to position trade. I agree, the firm needs to meet the needs of the customer and vice versa. Position traders and prop firms are not a good match. If I were looking for margin, I'd make a few daytrades and get my broker to give me 4x, then use that. 4x is plenty for a position trader using derivatives.
  9. mbs


    thank you all for your input...

    i am trading my own money now in a margin account through csfbdirect...the execution is terrible...i often wonder if they know what a stop is, or a limit order...i've had fills outside of the trading range more than once and only a threat to complain to the sec resulted in an adjustment.

    i didn't know i could ask for more than the normal margin allowed retail accounts...

    can anyone suggest a firm with decent execution, accurate position keeping and some level of customer service (repeated emails to csfb customer service have gone unanswered, the phone reps cannot answer questions re time and sales, etc).

    i would like to take a more serious stab at trading for myself and am not averse to using my own money to do so but would like to be treated as a customer instead of a source of brokerage $ only...

    i may be interested in day trading...is it primarily technical, event driven or pattern driven?...a friend of mine has been daytrading at andover for a couple of years and never seems to have any money.. is there a site i could visit that explains the finer points of daytrading?

    thanks again,
  10. mbs,

    I suggest you try a discount broker with direct access. Try IB,
    RJ Thompson or Datek. They will probably be giving you much better service than you are getting now, since these brokers cater
    to active traders & investors. These Brokers will also probably not charge for quotes or exchange fees. See the Broker section of Elite Trader.

    Gene Weissman
    Lieber & Weissman Sec., L.L.C.
    #10     Mar 21, 2002