Blah blah blah blah.... 777 speaks nonsense again. Listen to his babbling: ------------------------------- AXE:I can find multiple people who have directly contradictory knowledge to YOURS via the use of faith. 777:First, you cannot prove that the practice of faith is the same as my practice of faith. Secondly, the perceptions and experiences of others who have different experiences do not in themselves constitute a proof that contradictory perceptions and experiences are false. This is false reasoning. In fact...I FAITH right now that you are absolutely wrong. 777: I don't doubt you do. You practice your atheism with full faith and confidence. AXE:This proves just how inconsistent your voo doo belief system is and therefore proves how useless it is. 777:You have proved nothing beyond having a faith in a different concept of what ultimate reality is. AXE:You have NEVER addressed this issue, except to take the POMPOUS position that ONLY YOUR FAITH is true, and any faith which contradicts yours must be false. 777: False. I have never stated my faith is the only faith. What I have stated is that there can be only one faith in Absolute God. How it is practiced may differ according to one's understanding, but there is only one Supreme God, not two. Faith in Supreme God is a true faith, faith in less than supreme God is a false faith. AXE:Of course, you NEVER provide a reason WHY this is the case and why we should believe such nonsense. 777:Those who seek absolute knowledge, absolute happiness, perfect love, everlasting life would seek the source of those experiences. The source of those experiences is God. AXE:If a madman tells me he hears voices from god that tell him to shoot people, using your logic, his direct perceptions must be accepted as true. 777:Who can say? I can doubt his experiences, but I have no certainty that what he says is false. Just as if someone says they see the color red where I see the color blue, who is to say what the real color is, and how it should be seen? AXE:He is NOT simply a mentally ill FU**, he is using FAITH, and the voices he hears MUST be true since he directly experienced them. 777:He is labeled by society as mentally ill according to the norms of the society. In the same way society labels religious belief as real and sane. The field of mental health has not concluded that faith in God is an illusion, faith is accepted as a part of human nature and a means of knowing. AXE:Problem is, his internal voices are not testable, falsifiable or verifiable....and here is the KEY part....*** JUST LIKE YOURS!!! *** 777:No, they are not testable, only his actions are. If his actions are not within the realm of societal norms, he suffers the fate of his actions in society if they are harmful to others. AXE:I have no way to tell the difference between this SICKO MENTAL patient and YOU! 777:Then you have no way of observing behavior. Mental health is determined by behavior by mental health professionals, and they can determine if someone is sane or not on that basis. No one who is high functioning, yet at the same time has faith in God is deemed mentally ill by mental health professionals. AXE:As far as im concerned, if you really think you have these magical powers which allow ONLY YOU to communicate with a mythical creator of the WHOLE universe, then I can only conclude you have serious mental issues 777:As far as you are concerned is an opinion, nothing more. Fact is that I have never claimed to have magical powers. Prove that I said that. You can't, because I didn't say that. 777:In addition, I have never said that anyone cannot practice faith in Supreme God. anyone can practice faith in God. The ability is inherent within all human beings. --------------------------------- So now for the SUMMARY. What has 777 said in this post? 1) You cannot prove that the practice of faith is the same as my practice of faith 2) HIS (777's) faith is NOT the only faith 3) There can only be ONE faith in an absolute god 4) There is only one supreme god 5) Faith in Supreme God is a true faith 6) Faith in less than supreme God is a false faith 7) God is the source of absolute knowledge 8) If a madman hears voices from god to kill people, this may in fact be the case. 9) "Faith is accepted as a part of human nature and a means of knowing." 10) I have never claimed to have magical powers 11) Anyone can practice faith in God. There we have it. Now lets analyze this. 1) First of all, does ANYONE see a proof here? NO! Of course not. Again proving my assertion that 777 has never backed up his nonsense. 2) He has never proven #5, #6, #7, or #9, AND has not even proven that this supposed god he communicated with even exists. 3) #10 is obviously false, because 777 HAS claimed to have the magical power to communicate with the creator of the universe, and always implies that HIS ability to do this is TRUE, whereas MINE or anyone elses which contradicts his is FALSE. Even though he cannot prove this. 4) He continues to dodge the main problem in his silly belief system, and refuses to answer my main question which points out the HUGE hole in his silly hypothesis. Here goes again for all to see. Now watch carefully, because he will wiggle his way out of this again. If person A uses his FAITH in the ONE TRUE ABSOLUTE GOD, to acquire knowledge that person B's faith is a FALSE faith in a FALSE god, then 777 MUST agree this is true. HOWEVER: Person B uses his FAITH in the ONE TRUE ABSOLUTE GOD, to acquire knowledge that person A's faith is a FALSE faith in a FALSE god, then 777 MUST agree this is true. Oooops.... CONTRADICTION TIME! This is why this is so silly. I can have FAITH that 777 is wrong. But he will simply reject this and CLAIM that its a different faith. Or a faith in the wrong god, or some other stupid excuse. But he does NOT apply this SAME standard to himself. HIS faith is the correct faith. HIS faith is in the one true god. ANYONE elses faith which CONTRADICTS *HIS* faith in anyway, is AUTOMATICALLY redefined as being WRONG. This is completely fallacious and he knows it. A system of faith, that is NOT falsifiable, that is always correct, by simply changing the definition to include all challenges to it as being false, is NO FAITH AT ALL. It is simply a fiction. Ever hear of the True Irishmen fallacy? Look it up. That is exactly what 777's entire belief system is rooted in. He simply defines his faith as: The one true faith in the one true absolute god, which I 777 posses that cannot be contradicted by any other persons faith in the world, or by my very own defiintion, means their faith is false. Sorry 777... it doesnt work that way. I can just as easily claim that *MY* faith is: The one true faith in the one true absolute god, which I AXEMAN posses that cannot be contradicted by any other persons faith, in the world, ESPECIALLY 777's, or by my very own definition, means their faith is false. You have been thoroughly debunked 777. peace axeman
while atheists would argue that belief in god has the potential to open ugly doors as a 'root cause' that leads to dogmatic and oft violent crusades, atheistic worldviews are as prone to the same problems if not more so. if christianity and islam are downstream branches of theism, then communism, fascism, utilitarianism et. al are downstream branches of atheism. the point is that you can't point a finger at theistic belief systems without recognizing that atheistic belief systems have an equal if not superior claim to the murder and mayhem title... i'm just pointing out the underlying hypocrisy of the "religion violent / atheism peaceful" assumption. no straw man here. by the way what does "flase" mean?
"by the way what does "flase" mean? " Do you really want to lower yourself to that of a spellchecker dark? Didn't think so. peace axeman
"atheistic worldviews are as prone to the same problems if not more so" How so? Atheism doesn't state anything. Atheism is simply the LACK of theistic beliefs. Atheism is therefore not capable of compelling an atheist to do anything immoral, because it says NOTHING of the atheists morality. Atheists have all kinds of moral systems. However, biblical followers have historically read things in their holy books which explicitly state to KILL infidels, stone them to death, and burn the witches. It also tells them to CONVERT people. So they run off in crusades trying to convert everyone, and if you refuse, your an infidel, so they KILL you. These versions of THEISM and what they state DIRECTLY correlate to the actions of the people doing the killing. They are simply following their BOOKS. Its very clear. "if christianity and islam are downstream branches of theism, then communism, fascism, utilitarianism et. al are downstream branches of atheism." False analogy. Atheism is not required for communism, Fascism, etc. Theism *IS* required for christianity and islam. Bad correlation. I might as well claim that Nazism is a downstream branch of catholicism because Hitler was a catholic. But we know this is a BAD correlation because although he was a catholic, it was not his SPECIFIC CATHOLIC beliefs which caused him to kill jews. "the point is that you can't point a finger at theistic belief systems without recognizing that atheistic belief systems have an equal if not superior claim to the murder and mayhem title... " Nonsense. Again, how can something which is simply the LACK of belief in a diety compel anyone to murder? It cant. Your analogy is totally flawed. peace axeman
In you mind, according to your personal belief sytems and your practice of the faith of atheism perhaps, but not on any factual or provable basis. You continue to make the same assumptions again and again, assumptions that are without absolute and objective proof, and claim your assumptions are necessarily the correct assumptions. Believe what you need to believe to feel you are "winning" an argument, but in fact you are not.
I have clearly pointed out major logical contradictions in your belief system. If these contradictions do not qualify as proof of debunking, to you, then that is your opinion. My opinion is that they do. Everyone else can decide for themselves. peace axeman