So now your a mind reader? Fact is, I have studied religion far more than the average joe. I am also an ex-christian, so I think I know at least a little about christianity, and certainly more than the average christian who obviously does not even read their own book. I know EXACTLY what I believe in. Dont confuse the fact that I dont know how the universe got here, with the notion that I dont know what I believe. As far as homework... the fact that you bring such obviously weak arguments to the table, informs me that you have clearly not done yours. Other theists on ET have put forth FAR stronger arguments than anything you have produced so far. Your arguments have been the "weakest" of christian arguments that I typically come across which all sit on the vast assumptions that the bible is TRUE and that god even exists. peace axeman
Stop asserting that I dont know what I believe. That is incredibly pompous as well as completely FALSE. WHERE I have I said or implied that I dont know what I believe? Point it out, or retract your silly assertion. I adamantly oppose obviously ridiculous beliefs, especially when they are put forth as the truth. peace axeman
"""if you want to drag islam into this debate as well, most people in islamic nations (including again, iraq until we attacked them, and also UAE, Saudi Arabia) enjoy a very high standard of living.""" Bung, would you care to retract this fallacy please? Some interesting facts in this article: - Muslims account for almost a quarter of mankind, their share of the global wealth is less than 6%. - Nearly two-thirds of the world's poorest, those who live on under $2 a day, are Muslim. - Not a single Muslim country figures among the world's 30 richest nations - Of the 5,000 world-class brand products, not one is produced in a Muslim country - Leaving aside oil, caviar and Persian carpets, the 53 members of the Organization of Islamic Conference have nothing to offer the global market - Of the 30 active conflicts in the world today, 28 concern Muslim governments and/or communities. - In the past two decades at least 2.5 million people have died in the wars fought within or between Muslim states - Two-thirds of political prisoners are held in Muslim countries, which also carry out 80% of all executions in the world. - Muslims also account for nearly 80% of all the world's refugees - All but one of the world's last military regimes are in the Muslim world Solution to Islam's crisis lies within Amir Taheri National Post For decades the big question in the world of Islam has been: "Who did it to us?" Recalling the losses of Grenada and Kazan in the 15th century, the colonization of most Muslim lands by Western empires in the 19th, and the almost total marginalization of the Islamic world in the 20th, rulers and intellectuals from Jakarta to Casablanca, and passing by Tehran and Cairo, asked the same question. The common belief was that Islam was the victim of some vast conspiracy by the "Christian" powers, manipulated by "devious Jews" who feared the message of Muhammad, and were determined to prevent Islam from spreading to the entire universe. The conspiracy theory is still strong in the Muslim world. But the shock of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks against the United States seems to have encouraged a fresh attempt at understanding the causes of Islam's current crisis. Many Muslims are now asking: "What have we done to ourselves?" Some of the issues raised are certainly important and must be debated.
Atheism is as much a religion as Islam. It would take more faith to be an Atheist than to believe in God. I have not seen anything demonstrated by your worldview to suggest the contrary. All you have done is make railing accusations and Name calling. If you were trying to win me over with pursuasive arguement - then you have failed in your endevour. You claim that there is no God but yet you insist on evolution. You have NO proof of Macroevolution within the fossil record. There is NO proof of one species changing into another within the fossil record. I have given YOU proof the the Bible is divine rather than human in origin. I have demonstrated what I believe and why I believe it. If you dissagree then the burden of proof is on YOU. The challenge has been put on the table for YOU to prove me wrong. What YOU choose to do with it is up to you. I do believe that I have exhausted the subject and my proposition has gone unchallenged. __________________________________________ The issue is KILL vs. murder. Killing is the act of taking a life in just retrobution and judgement for sin. Murder is the act of taking an innocent life without just cause. For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life. If we discovered that god existed, does that automatically make it rational to kill infants when you get angry at the actions of another???????????????????????????? It is not rational to kill infants that is why ABORTION is WRONG! Would this make it moral? NO. Or would such horrific actions ONLY be moral when god does them and not man?? God is Lord of the universe and again you have not understood God's law. That is a very complex question. It is not complex. You simply refuse to deal with the issue. Or would this simply make killing innocents moral? I already answered that question. The killing of the innocent is wrong. "The soul that sinneth shall die". NOT the innocent shall die. A text of a dialogue with a creationist: ": What is the principle evidence for Creationism? Christianity is NOT a blind leap into a dark chasm but rather is faith based on reputable fact. A: The Holy Bible. The Holy Bible is divine rather than human in origin. We have: Manuscript evidence, Archeological evidence, Prophetic evidence, Statistical probability. Q: But isn't the Bible religion and not science? A: NO. the Bible is actually 66 books written by over 40 different authors spanning a period of about 1200 years. Many of the historical writers knew nothing about the plan of redemption. Many of the writers did not know each other and did not know that the others were writing. Q: But isn't there a lot of evidence for evolution? A: No. The fossil records do not bare it out. Q: What about the fossil evidence? A: There is NO PROOF of macroevolution demonstrated within the fossil record. The fossil record is the biggest embarrassment to evolutionary theory. Again there is NO evidence of translation of one species to another within the fossil record. Q: Is there any other evidence for Creationism besides the Bible? A: Yes. Q: Can you give us some? A: Yes. Q: Could you give us a specific example? A: Yes. Creation is by complex design which demands a complex designer. Nothing from nothing yields nothing. You can not get something from nothing. Mater must be present in order to have substance. Mater has to have a beginning and a creator. The human eye for example is highly complex in its makeup and design. Such an event would not and could not come into existence simply by chance. The human eye must have a creator. The car engine is another example. The car engine was not self existent but was rather created by complex human design and NOT by chance. Q: What be a specific example of evidence for Creationism? A: I've already answered that question. Q: Did the dinosaurs coexist with man? A: There is some evidence that during the life of Job in the Book of Job in the Old Testament "dragon" like beast such as leviathan lurked in the fields. Q: Should Creationism be taught along with Evolution in the schools? A: YES. Q: Doesn't the Geologic Column prove that the Earth is very old? A: An argument could be given for an "Old Earth" theory but that is beyond the scope of the topic at hand. Q: Hasn't Evolution been demonstrated in the laboratory? A: Im sure it has been attempted to no avail. Again there is NO evidence of Macroevolution within the fossil record. Without the fossil record you have no evolutionary theory. Q: Doesn't genetic variation indicate that life has been going on a long time? A: Since the beginning of Adam in the garden of Eden life on Earth has continued. Q: What about Neanderthal Man? A: Piltdown Man, Neanderthal Man, pithecanthropus Erectus and the like are ALL FAKE! they owe their origin to human ingenuity & creativity. All of the above have been proven within the scientific community to be false and made up. Q: Why do almost all of the scientists believe in Evolution? A: There is no evidence to suggest that. There are many scientist that believe in creation.
(Islam, key to downward mobility, cont) But the risk is that the right question may lead to wrong answers and thus prevent a serious critique of Islam, both as faith and as existential reality -- a critique without which Islam cannot find a way out of its deepening crisis. Let us consider some of the issues raised by the "what have we done to ourselves" group. Some, like Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf, have focused on Islam's deteriorating economic performance. While Muslims account for almost a quarter of mankind, their share of the global wealth is less than 6%. Nearly two-thirds of the world's poorest, those who live on under $2 a day, are Muslim, while not a single Muslim country figures among the world's 30 richest nations. Others, like, Malaysia's Prime Minister Mahathir Muhammad, have drawn attention to the failure of Muslim nations to adapt to modern technology and the global economy. Of the 5,000 world-class brand products, not one is produced in a Muslim country. In fact, leaving aside oil, caviar and Persian carpets, the 53 members of the Organization of Islamic Conference have nothing to offer the global market. It was only half in jest that Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika recently quipped that the Muslim world did not even have a world-class football team. Still others, Iran's President Muhammad Khatami for example, have lamented the brain drain that is forcing 1.2-million highly educated Muslims, among them 180,000 Iranians, to immigrate to Europe, North America and other "Christian" lands such as Australia and New Zealand each year. Arab, Iranian and other Muslim commentators have highlighted other facts. Of the 30 active conflicts in the world today, 28 concern Muslim governments and/or communities. In the past two decades at least 2.5 million people have died in the wars fought within or between Muslim states. Two-thirds of political prisoners are held in Muslim countries, which also carry out 80% of all executions in the world. Muslims also account for nearly 80% of all the world's refugees. All that is welcome as far as washing dirty linen in public goes. But what ultimately matters is what the Muslims mean to do about it. On that score the results may be described as disappointing -- at least so far. Musharraf blames unidentified "fanatics" for the sorry state of affairs he has described. But he does not mention the fact that all but one of the world's last military regimes are in the Muslim world and that he himself heads one of them. Nor does he acknowledge the fact that his government is financing thousands of madrassahs (religious schools) where millions of Pakistani children are brainwashed by Taliban-style teachers. Mahathir seems to have abandoned his silly notion of "Asian values." But he is still reluctant to admit that his authoritarian rule, including his manipulation of the judiciary against political rivals, have been factors in encouraging Islamist radicalism. Khatami, for his part, needs to be reminded that, five years after becoming President, he is yet to present a single reform project to a parliament supposedly packed with reformists. Instead, he has presided over the closure of virtually all independent newspapers in Iran and the trebling of the number of political prisoners. As for Bouteflika, rather than lamenting the absence of an efficient 11 squad, he should explain why Algeria, which earns US$20-billion a year from energy exports, is unable to feed its people or provide drinking water for its capital. All the leaders mentioned, and many of the intellectuals who have joined the "dirty linen" exercise, end their discourse with the assertion that "we have not been good Muslims." Their proposed solution is to apply "true Islam." Each, of course, has his own definition of what a "good Muslim" is and what "true Islam" looks like. Some have come out with citations from the Holy Book and, by doing so, have defined themselves rather than the problems discussed. The result is a new form of obfuscation designed to theologize political problems and, thus, avoid the core issue that is the absence of democracy and the rule of law in most Muslim countries. Muslims need the exact opposite method of dealing with their problems: They need to de-theologize their politics and recognize the concept of the political as an independent category. Unless that is done, the Muslim world shall continue in its current state of denial that breeds bigotry, ignorance, violence and, yes, terrorism. Amir Taheri, an Iranian author and journalist, is editor of the Paris-based Politique Internationale.
Here's Zeus!! Zeus is angry!!! Zeus is coming for GA!!! ...Zeus just wants to be naked right now... ...Zeus is gonna get a BJ... ...oops Zeus is naked again! he's much happier after his BJ... ..now that he's done with his hummer, Zeus is going out for more ladies...
Again you have attacked the messenger and not the message. You are simply running away from the argument. I did not say that YOU DONT KNOW WHAY YOU BELIEVE but rather YOU have NOT demonstrated beyond a reasonable doupt as to pursuade me to believe in the notion that the Bible is ridiculous or that my assertion that the Fossil record is an embarrasment to evolutionary theory.
I wasn't implying that Muslim countries are where it's at; I was contrasting the BETTER quality-of-living Muslim countries such as Iraq and UAE with shittier quality-of-life Christian countries such as Brazil or Venezuela to prove my that Christian countries are not necessarily better places to live than non-Christian countries. ...and how much trailer trash in the US is Christian versus Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, or any other religion in the US? You don't have to answer that. I think you've taken this as an opportunity to segue into an attack on Islam, which I do not want part of.