"God's law is much higher than mans law." You must first prove the existence of god before making such bold claims. Of course.... no one in history has ever been able to do this, and somehow I seriously doubt that YOU will be able to Gordon need not explain the universe to you. He may simple say " I dont know " ( why the universe and we exist). The fact that no one can explain why the universe exists in NO WAY adds to the credibility of your fairytale. Maybe you have a deep internal egotistical need to be able to explain everything, but I do not. As an atheist, I DO NOT KNOW, why the universe exists, and that is fine with me. Far better than making up fairy tale crap to make myself feel better. For fellow ET-ers... yes im in an extra cranky mood peace axeman
bro, you gotta admit "if" there is a god, it would be above and outside of man's morality. right ?? surf
Would it? Define "Above". Define "outside". Way too nebulous to even be answerable. My morality is based on rational thinking. So would this mean that gods is not? Or would god conform to what is rational? Or does god DEFINE what is rational? If we discovered that god existed, does that automatically make it rational to kill infants when you get angry at the actions of another???????????????????????????? Would this make it moral? Or would such horrific actions ONLY be moral when god does them and not man?? That is a very complex question. What if god DOES exist, and he is in fact a son of a bitch? What if he IS pretty damn angry and jealous and DID kill people left and right and was in fact NOT moral?? Or would this simply make killing innocents moral? peace axeman
"But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who push the truth away from themselves. For the truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in thier hearts. From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God. Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that thier minds became dark and confused. Claming to be wise, they became fools instead. And instead of worshipping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people, or birds and animals and snakes. So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen" Romans 1:18-25 "So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world's brilliant debaters? God has made them all look foolish and has shown their wisdom to be useless nonsense. Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never find him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save all who believe. God's way seems foolish to the Jews because they want a sign from heaven to prove it is true. And it is foolish to the Greeks because they believe only what agrees with their own wisdom. So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended, and the Gentiles say it's all nonsense. But to those called by God to salvation, both Jews and Gentiles, Chist is the mighty power of God and the wonderful wisdom of God. This "foolish" plan of God is far wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God's weakness is far stronger than the greatest of human strength." 1 Corinthians 1:20-25
Ummm.... do you REALLY expect any thinking person to swallow such ridiculous nonsense? If so... then you are truly are beyond help. Replace the word GOD below with ZEUS, and even YOU would reject it outright as silliness. peace axeman
12-02-03 07:17 PM Re: How do you explain the origins of the universe? "God's law is much higher than mans law." You must first prove the existence of god before making such bold claims. On the contrary the burden of proof is on YOU to prove that he doesnt. The fact that no one can explain why the universe exists in NO WAY adds to the credibility of your fairytale. As an atheist, I DO NOT KNOW, why the universe exists, and that is fine with me. Far better than making up fairy tale crap to make myself feel better. For fellow ET-ers... yes im in an extra cranky mood peace axeman I do not believe that YOU have truely done your homework on the subject. It seems that you don't know what you believe or why you believe it?
again if you don't know what to believe then why are you so adamantly against all opposing arguments?
i think you are confusing christians with europeans, dude. scientific progress (as measured by local medicine, and technological level of manufactured goods) is actually per capita highest in scandinavia and northern europe, regions which have many atheists, most of them former protestants. all the engineering and energy shit was going on in europe when the US was still sorting its shit out...during the late 1800s and early 1900s...mostly in france, germany and the UK... who came to the US in the past century?? mostly europeans. who have been the US's biggest trade partners in the last 2 centuries? europeans. who owns more land in the united states than any other country? britain. and surf, i think you are forgetting most of south america. no offense to el cubano or anyone else, but south america has lots of christians and little progress. poor quality of living for many people. and, if you want to drag islam into this debate as well, most people in islamic nations (including again, iraq until we attacked them, and also UAE, Saudi Arabia) enjoy a very high standard of living. history: until the crusades, most scientific progress was actually made in regions that today are islamic countries. areas such as iraq ("cradle of civilization") spawned the first modern societies. and as commiso so eloquently pointed out, america has been founded by CAPITALISTS. capitalism and christianity are polar opposites, man. jesus was a hippie. PS -- gekko & longshot -- you need therapy. how do you log in/out so fast?? ...maybe you have 2 computers... GA -- Zeus is gonna come a knockin' with all your talk about some other God greater than the great Zeus!!