April in July On July 25, 1990, eight days before the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, a quiet, largely unreported meeting took place between Saddam Hussein and U.S. Ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie at the Presidential Palace in Baghdad, which has since been destroyed by the war. The transcript of this meeting is as follows: U.S. Ambassador Glaspie: "I have direct instructions from President Bush to improve our relations with Iraq. We have considerable sympathy for your quest for higher oil prices, the immediate cause of your confrontation with Kuwait. (pause) As you know, I have lived here for years and admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country. We know you need funds. We understand that, and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. (pause) We can see that you have deployed massive numbers of troops in the south. Normally that would be none of our business, but when this happens in the context of your other threats against Kuwait, then it would be reasonable for us to be concerned. For this reason, I have received an instruction to ask you, in the spirit of friendship - not confrontation - regarding your intentions: Why are your troops massed so very close to Kuwait's borders?" Saddam Hussein: "As you know, for years now I have made every effort to reach a settlement on our dispute with Kuwait. There is to be a meeting in two days; I am prepared to give negotiations only this one more brief chance. (pause) When we [the Iraqis] meet [with the Kuwaitis] and we see there is hope, then nothing will happen. But if we are unable to find a solution, then it will be natural that Iraq will not accept death." U.S. Ambassador Glaspie: "What solutions would be acceptable?" Saddam Hussein: "If we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab - our strategic goal in our war with Iran - we will make concessions (to the Kuwaitis). But, if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt and the whole of Iraq (which, in Saddam's view, includes Kuwait) then we will give up all of the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the shape we wish it to be. (pause) What is the United States' opinion on this?" (Pause, then Ambassador Glaspie speaks carefully) U.S. Ambassador Glaspie: "We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960's that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America." (Saddam smiles.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Green Light and the Limosine At a Washington press conference called the next day, State Department spokesperson Margaret Tutweiler was asked by journalists: "Has the United States sent any type of diplomatic message to the Iraqis about putting 30,000 troops on the border with Kuwait? Has there been any type of protest communicated from the United States government?" to which she responded: "I'm entirely unaware of any such protest." On July 31st, two days before the Iraqi invasion, John Kelly, Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern affairs, testified to Congress that the "United States has no commitment to defend Kuwait and the U.S. has no intention of defending Kuwait if it is attacked by Iraq." Eight days later, on August 2, 1990, Saddam Hussein's massed troops invaded and occupied Kuwait (ironically, this was done in a method historically similar to the American anexation of Texas). One month later in Baghdad, British journalists obtained the tape and transcript of the Hussein-Glaspie meeting on July 25, 1990. In order to verify this astounding information, they attempted to confront Ms. Glaspie as she was leaving the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad. Journalist 1: "Are the transcripts (holding them up) correct, Madam Ambassador?" (Ambassador Glaspie does not respond) Journalist 2: "You knew Saddam was going to invade (Kuwait), but you didn't warn him not to. You didn't tell him America would defend Kuwait. You told him the oppose - that America was not associated with Kuwait." Journalist 1: "You encouraged this aggression - his invasion. What were you thinking?" U.S. Ambassador Glaspie: "Obviously, I didn't think, and nobody else did, that the Iraqis were going to take ALL of Kuwait." Journalist 1: "You thought he was just going to take SOME of it? But how COULD YOU?! Saddam told you that, if negotiations failed, he would give up his Iran (Shatt al Arab Waterway) goal for the "WHOLE of Iraq, in the shape we wish it to be." You KNOW that includes Kuwait, which the Iraqis have always viewed as an historic part of their country!" (Ambassador Glaspie says nothing, pushing past the two journalists to leave) "America green-lighted the invasion. At a minimum, you admit signalling Saddam that some aggression was okay - that the U.S. would not oppose a grab of the al-Rumalya oil field, the disputed border strip and the Gulf Islands (including Bubiyan) - territories claimed by Iraq?" (Again, Ambassador Glaspie says nothing as a limousine door closes behind her and the car drives off.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ross Perot gets to The National Honor Two years later, during NBC News Decision '92's 3rd round of The Presidential Debate, 1992 presidential candidate Ross Perot was quoted as saying: "...we told him he could take the northern part of Kuwait; and when he took the whole thing we went nuts. And if we didn't tell him that, why won't we even let the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and the Senate Intelligence Committee see the written instructions for Ambassador Glaspie? - " At this point, he was interrupted by former president George Bush who yelled: "I've got to reply on that. That gets to the National Honour!... That is absolutely absurd!" Later on in the debate, President Bill Clinton stated: "...Several government departments, several, had information that he was converting our aid to military purposes and trying to develop weapons of mass destruction, but in late '89 the President signed a secret policy saying we were going to continue to try to improve relations with him, and we sent him some sort of communication on the eve of his invasion of Kuwait that we still wanted better relations..." On August 23rd, Iraq offered to withdraw in return for the lifting of economic sanctions, guaranteed access to the Gulf, and full control of the Rumalyah oil field. The proposal was not accepted. In late February, the Soviets negotiated a peace proposal involving a three-week withdrawal period on the part of the Iraqis, in exchange for removal of the sanctions. George Bush did not accept. It soon became reported in American newspapers, magazines, and television media that the Iraqis had the world's fourth-largest army with estimates of up to a million soldiers, including the battle-hardened elite republican guard. Later, it was estimates were reduced to 2-3 hundred thousand Iraqi soldiers. By the end of the war, this number was further reduced to a hundred-thousand untrained troops, most of whom were forced to maintain their positions. This is ironic, considering that in the fall of 1990, after the start of the war, Canadian military analyst Gwynne Dyer remarked that "Saddam Hussein was not a problem that kept anybody awake in July." Three successive American administrations did nothing from 1980 to 1988, when Saddam Hussein was responsible for killing over 150,000 Iranians and 13,000 of his own civilians including approximately 4,000 unarmed Kurds. history of Iraq at http://www.rafidain.co.uk/kuwait.html regards wild
there are free satellite images online with resolutions high enough to spot individual people on the street. God knows what the defense dept has access to. The US regular military is over a million strong. The defense budget is in the hundreds of billions, and who knows how many billions to NSA/CIA/FBI/whatever. Supercomputers, encryption experts, translators, local spies. But saddam tricks 'em all by switching houses in the middle of the desert? (and if he does, with all that technology, ask if these are the people you want to trust with a war )
Hey, if Max and RS7 can finally agree on something, then there must be hope for the human race. What's next, Saddam and Dubya exchanging Christmas gifts?
GA.... Though I consider max a pain in the ass, and a devout nemesis, this does NOT mean I do not respect his intelligence or some of his opinions. The guy is obviously very bright, very literate, and apparently well educated. And also, seemingly of my generation, which actually means something. (Or used to). Plus, anyone that uses Dr. Strangelove as a point of reference in any manner, automatically gets points in my book. Where Max and I seem to differ (and I can be wrong, this is just my take), is that opponents on issues, no matter what they may be, can still be respective of each other. Think politics for example. Or sports. The fiercest opponents in their "fields of play" always can, and often do have great respect and sometimes even friendship. I could see actually liking max. He has shown some great effort and diligence. I may find his subject matter occasionally distasteful (trying to discredit whatever I say), but I have to admire his tenacity. I have attempted to make peace with him by PM. I have no feelings one way or the other about his opinions really, except for the occasionally over the top rejections of "evidence" he specifically asked for, was provided with, and yet still would not accept. The French Visa comes to mind. Having said this, YES, there is always hope for "the human race". After all, as diverse as we are as a species, we really all seem to want the same things. Peace, love, and happiness. Some of us just have different concepts of the meaning of these words. GO JETS!!!!!!! GO 'CANES!!!! Peace, Rs7
Cuban Missile Crisis cannot be compared to terrorists with nukes. The Crisis involved the USSR and the concept of M.A.D. Again, for the umpteenth time, there is no M.A.D. with terrorists. N. Korea is indeed a threat, but recent developments have yet to be played out, i.e. they've postured like this before but diplomacy has in the past been able to work. 'Gasp', can you believe that statement coming from a WARMONGER!!
Cubano, those scenarios have been studied and published in just about every news magazine and major newspaper out there, liberal and conservative. I am hardly privy to top-secret information! I don't believe everything I read in the newspaper. If you think it'd be simply a matter of dropping in a Delta Force team to take out Saddam, I must then admonish you not to believe everything you see on TV or the movies.
Madison, the sad truth is that all this costly technology cannot replace what is known in intelligence lingo as HUMINT, or human intelligence assets on the ground (people). You can have all the high resolution super-duper whatever, but it's all useless if you plain don't know where the guy is.
What about the kid's picture? That had more of a tear jerk quality to it... Why do you insist on continuing to defend yourself? After just a few short days, ya gotta start it up. Again. Of course, my comment now must mean I'm the one who is "obsessed." Get over it. Sheesh!
My dear Madison, your unwavering logic has pierced me like an arrow of truth. I have undergone a transformation, a la brother Candle, from die-hard warmonger to, well, let's be honest, a better person. What did it for me was your statement: The blinding simplicity of that statement has made me realize how foolish I've been. I must emphasize that statement again: HE PURPORTEDLY INVADED KUWAIT I must now confess that I know more than I let on. Yep, since ElCubano discovered that I'm privy to all sorts of classified material thanks to my Safeway Club Card, I'll fill you in on What Really Happened in Kuwait. It won't surprise you to hear that, of course, THE U.S. STARTED THE WAR! Those warmongers can call us CONSPIRACY THEORISTS all they want, but darnit, we know the truth is out there, don't we?!? This is how it went down: A team of DELTA FORCE INSTIGATORS was inserted at the Iraq-Kuwait border, where they blared Bob Dylan songs at the Iraqi border patrol at maximum volume. This, a fine example of US foreign policy at its worst, resulted in the poor, innocent Iraqi troops - who had, by the way, been peacefully knitting crochet and reading "How to Be a Good Neighbor" magazine - having no choice but to call Saddam at his humble co-op on the lower-east side of Baghdad and ask what they should do. Saddam, a tad incensed as he had been interrupted in the middle of signing a historic document authorizing all Iraqi Kurds unfettered access to his 60 palaces and their swimming pools and video game arcades, paused for a second then advised them to make "double, no triple sure" that the Americans had actually incurred into Iraqi territory. Assured that they had, Saddam wearily shook his head, a man of peace bereaved under the weight of what he must do. After praying to Allah for forgiveness, he uttered softly into the mouthpiece: "Follow them into Kuwait. We must protect our Kuwaiti brothers from this evil. Oh, and if possible, use rubber bullets. If we can drive the Americans away with no blood spilt, my sleep will be easier in the harrowing days to come." Hanging up the phone, Saddam finished his document then called El AL to reserve the next flight to Jerusalem, where he was to be awarded the Ben Gurion Prize for Peace by the editors of Hebrew Housekeeping Weekly in a secret ceremony (you see, Madison, Iraq & Israel are really secret buddies! It's actually a decades-long facade the Jews implemented in order to keep US military aid money pouring in. Why do you think the Scuds were so ineffective?!? Bad design?!? Please! And why didn't the Israelis retaliate, huh?!? That's proof right there! But don't tell anyone, okay? sssshhhhh) Before retiring to bed, Saddam prayed again for Allah's forgiveness then called the 700 Club and pledged 30 bucks. Meanwhile, back at the border, the Iraqi troops removed the "make love not war" buttons from their uniforms, reluctantly took the flowers out of their rifle barrels, and chased the imperialist Americans into Kuwait. Once inside Kuwaiti territory, our Iraqi heroes were confronted by Elvis Presley and Jimmy Hoffa sitting by an oasis pool performing a duet of "Love Me Tender." This mollified them somewhat, and they would have left Kuwait immediately had it not been for the strange appearance of a UFO that landed among them. This disc-shaped craft, emblazoned somewhat suspiciously with a Texaco emblem on its side, suddenly opened on one side and out stepped none other than JFK! Turns out the man shot in Dallas was in fact....oh, wait, sorry, you're not cleared for that just yet. Rack up bigger monthly bills at Safeway and I may be able to let you in on it... As for the rest, you know what happened. Iraq liberated Kuwait and its people from their notoriously miserable life of wealth, independence, and a few good night clubs. The Kuwaiti people were so happy they gave Saddam and his troops all of their money, cars, jewelry, etc. Oh, and the Kuwaiti women just positively THREW themselves at the handsome Iraqi troops (that whole rape nonsense was a Zionist distortion of the media). The evil Americans, guided as usual in the background by a select cabal of Jewish bankers (who are also members of the committee that made up out of thin air that whole Holocaust fabrication)*, then used deceit, blackmail, gummy bears, and thousands of Jenna Jameson DVDs to form a coalition of nations to invade Kuwait without provocation and steal back their monopoly on the oil trade. In Baghdad, Saddam heard news of the coalition, stepped into his kitchen, and shouted (Al Pacino voice from Godfather III goes here) "Every time I try to get out, they PULL ME BACK IN!" When informed that he was suspected of manufacturing bio/chem/nuke weapons, he was quite properly stunned as he thought his scientists were merely making better insecticides. Everyone in the world knows Iraqi roaches are the size of small dogs and quite capable of carrying off small children! Bigger bugs meant more powerful bug juice, simple as that! Why weren't the Americans investigating the manufacturer of RAID for chrissakes?!? Racist bastards! Anyhoo, Iraqi troops bid a tearful farewell to their Kuwaiti brothers and sisters and, out of the goodness of their own hearts, left Kuwait in order to prevent possible bloodshed. (No Iraqi soldiers were actually captured or killed, you see. The images of frontline Iraqi troops surrendering by the thousands en masse were digitally produced effects from LucasFilms and the EA Sports gaming software company, and were designed to fool the American public into thinking their armed forces could actually do some damage. George Lucas, as you well know, is George Dubya's half-brother, the bastard offspring of a dalliance between George Sr. and Marilyn Monroe. Heh heh, and all this time you thought the Kennedy's were responsible for her murder!) Oh, and whilst chasing them, a clumsy American trooper taking a cigarette break dropped his Zippo lighter into a nearby oil well, starting a chain reaction of blazes that made the Kuwaiti sky black. When apprised of this, George Bush, Sr. immediately telephoned his "sleepers" at CNN - Ted Turner & Bernard Shaw - and uttered the codeword that transformed them from objective human beings and reporters to robotic mouthpieces of the Bush Administration. In this way, the nefarious, interventionist Americans manipulated the world into believing that the peace-loving Iraqi troops had actually torched the oil wells! (That codeword, by the way, was ZELDA. I can tell you now only because I'm safely hidden by clandestine elements of the NAE - Network of Amish Electricians. They shuttle me from barn to barn hidden under bales of hay in various horse carts employing an ingenius switch pattern performed at 4 mph). * That cabal of bankers is the same group that called all the Jewish workers at the WTC and told them not to come to work on 9/11. But you already knew that, didn't ya pal? Madison, I humbly propose that you and I, along with Candle, Kicking, and other fellow rationals, make a trip to Baghdad. Kind of like what that great patriot Sean Penn did. We'll all stand in a circle with Saddam holding hands and sing "Kumbayah." The power of our belief will emanate from our circle of love and spread throughout the globe. I just know the world will come to its senses then. I can say with all confidence that the gesture will make Bin Laden emerge from hiding, go to D.C., and do a jig with our President, who will immediately announce that effective immediately the US will not intervene in world affairs. The world, far from perceiving this as weakness and capitulation, would erupt in a volcano of kindred goodwill. Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups would immediately cease their suicide bombings and throw white garlands over smiling Israeli troops. India and Pakistan will disarm. North Korea will dismantle its military and open itself to the rest of the world. Free trade would flow unchecked. The Police would reunite and tour again. All would be right with the world. 'sigh' I'm getting a peaceful, easy feeling just thinking about it. Thank you so for showing me the light! Gotta go and hug my new neighbor down the street. He's a convicted child molester out due to prison over-crowding, but deep down I know I need not worry about the safety of my family because hey, since he has been through counseling in prison, I know I can trust him 100%. Even when he stares and drools while kids walk past him. Aw shucks, that's probably just the medication! If it weren't for you, Candle, Kicking, et al, I never would have realized that the answer to the current crisis is written in an old Beatles tune. All you need is love. Have a very pleasant weekend.
Not for the first time since George Bush became president the United States is finding it a lot harder to deal with its friends than its enemies. On this occasion the conundrum is in north-east Asia, where Washington's efforts to punish North Korea for its nuclear transgressions have so far served only to alienate one of its staunchest allies, South Korea more at http://www.guardian.co.uk/korea/article/0,2763,868491,00.html regards wild