Daniel_M, I used to think like you about Islam. I used to wish to turn em into dessicated dog meat by B52'ing em to shreds too. But the more deeply I looked into US foreign policy, the more I understood why the Muslims (and indeed many non-Muslims) had a legitimate reason to hate the USA. If you were to be morally objective, I suggest to you that your concerns should be directed towards US foreign policy, and not to the victims of US foreign policy. I sincerely fear that by attacking Iraq, the USA is setting itself up for a ruder awakening than that which it experienced on 9/11/2001... and the backlash will not be restricted to an Islamic backlash... it will be deeper, more pervasive and much more significant than Islam versus USA... it will be a union of Islam with many European countries and many African and Asian countries, acting in concert to curtail US hegemony through a combination of political action and what the USA would label as 'terrorism'... Just my 2 cents, Candle
Did not expect a better answer from you. After all you are just a rat from eastern europe. Understand me I have the greatest respect for eastern europeans but you know what the europeans from the west think of you???? just rats and hungry people.. You silly bitch. I hired an eastern european because I found him brilliant and you know what I have been told by my bosses : "these people from eastern europe are not like "us" don't hire him. Anyway I took the risk and I was happy to do it.. You know why??? because I am higher and bigger than you asshole. My consideration is first the human qualities of the person I have in front of me not his religion race .... and it is thanks to guys like me that we may hope for a better future not assholes like you. Moreover, I had some friends that went to eastern europe and they said to me that with a pair of jeans you can buy whatever you want women, food ... seems your values are not that high over there. Now you're back in macedonia ??? apparently Uncle Sam did not want to give you a visa, and now like a rat you will try to go to western europe... What is pathetic is that a guy like you talk that way.... If you were from the Us I would say ok that's another moron... But you are just a poor macedonian. Concerning world domination, I don't think that this is the point of muslims or hungry macedonians. Their main aim is to eat and have a better life that's it.... and they will do anything to eat and you know that poor hungry macedonian... For the statistics, concerning brains, well I have huge statistics but as I said it if you had the chance to go to university and apparently you had not you would realize that what I said is right. During the Tech boom american came en masse to third world countries including muslim countries where I repeat it some of the finest brains are.
i, as much as anyone, would love to see the world all get along. truly i would. like you, perhaps not as intensely, i also detest US interference in the affairst of other countries. i would much prefer to see the US concentrate on matters inside its own borders rather than obsessing with being the world's cop - much like western european nations do. however, it's not simply a matter of "pull out and they'll stop". america is seen (rightly) as the bastion of the free world and is an obvious target for the hatred that islam - the religion - preaches. islam just has it in for anything non-islamic. i've said it before, and i'll keep saying it, because, damn it, it is just plain old TRUE. candletrader, islam, at its very roots, is irreconciliably opposed to the Western way of life. there's just no getting around that. i could quite happily do with simply despising islam and leaving it at that. 'agree to disagree'. tolerate opposing points of view. no problem. the thing is, the other side isn't prepared to play by the same rules! that's what bugs me! we've got (i'm living in austalia at the moment) the world's biggest islamic nation north of our shores (Indonesia) and the rhetoric emanating from the hard liners (and their very own terrorist network, Jemaah Islamiah) is just as horrifying as the stuff you routinely hear from the middle east. then you've got idiot islamic heads of state like Malaysia's Mahatir Mohammed provoking hatred with BS like "Australia is unsafe for muslims." (which is a complete freakin joke as australia is, in many ways, probably the freest nation on earth!) i simply cannot, for the life of me, find a less reasonable group of people than muslims. i can't stand the fuckers! if these people refuse to quit their agenda, what the hell are we supposed to do? as for your 'attack on america' scenario, i find it pretty far fetched really. i just think we've come too far, as human beings, for things to deteriorate to that level. then again, stranger things, i guess, have happened.
TF2000, this is the post i was replying to. you were making some commentary about the state of affairs in the world, and then, for some reason, you started waffling on about islam this, islam that. you keep trying to defend islam, i'll keep telling the truth about it. face it jack! islam is the biggest load of crap the world has EVER had to put up with! you can call me an eastern european rat or whatever the hell u like. hahahah. it's actually quite amusing. still, you can't get away from the FACT that most muslims, living in muslim nations in the middle east, are no where near as educated and open minded as their eastern european counterparts. what else can i say about a way of life (islam) that treats its women the way it does? and all the other BS customs that come along with being a muslim? we've got a word for them: PRIMTIVE? get it, dude? PRIMITIVE. that's what islam is! it's a load of primitive bullshit! and just try going to a muslim country and preaching that message! lol. good luck to you... you need to get it through your EXTREMELY THICK skull that it is not ARABS i hate, it is THEIR RELIGION! i, perhaps unlike you, could not care less about where a person is from! i couldn't care less what race someone is! but i do care when, as demanded by their religion (which is obviously an untrue one!), THEY are the ones hating ME! get it? it's the MUSLIMS doing the HATING you freakin idiot! not the other way around!
If the eskimos ruled Iraq, the USA would be threatening to bomb the eskimos... this is categorically not about Islam... its about the USA's pursuit of geopolitical domination and resource control...
what the hell are you talking about candletrader? i already said that the USA isn't going to go into iraq (IF IT DOES, stop ASSUMING it WILL!) for religious reasons. YOU are the one that kept coming up with reasons the muslims will get upset over it and therefore retaliate. i told you that EVEN IF american totally stopped involving herself in international affairs, the muslims would still have a gripe (they certainly do! no denying that!)
Candle you're strong. You know that Chavez the current president of venezuela was threatened by The US at first. Do you also know that Mossadech the former prime minister of Iran a great man that wanted to nationalize Iranian oil was killed by the CIA. They Put Shah a dictator and we know what happened later on. There was a map of the american troops in the middle east and what was funny was that those troops were near the major oil fields. And if they want to invade Iraq it is simply because they do not control yet their oil fields. Purely simple... After that we will say look muslims hate us they are different and you will have propaganda like with the nazis that will be very soft in the ears of moron or simply in the ears oif people that do not want to make the effort to understand...
make the effort to understand what TF? i have gone to great lengths to understand islam. and from those investigations i conclude that islam is a load of bullshit, just like every other religion, and, furthermore, it leads to the most freedom constricting, primitive, backwards way of life on earth. i've also been able to discover that is the MUSLIMS who will never be satisfied with non-muslims, and it is THEY who are doing the preaching of death to non-muslims and the rest of usual crap; that it is, by and large, the muslims doing all the hating; that it is the MUSLIMS who are INTOLERANT of other ways of life, not the other way around. i think i've understood islam just fine.
http://www.xmission.com:8000/~dderhak/index/moors.htm http://www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/convert/20.htm Never have I witnessed such sincere hospitality and overwhelming spirit of true brotherhood as is practiced by people of all colors and races here in this ancient Holy Land, the home of Abraham, Muhammad and all the other Prophets of the Holy Scriptures. For the past week, I have been utterly speechless and spellbound by the graciousness I see displayed all around me by people of all colors. "I have been blessed to visit the Holy City of Mecca, I have made my seven circuits around the Ka'ba, led by a young Mutawaf named Muhammad, I drank water from the well of the Zam Zam. I ran seven times back and forth between the hills of Mt. Al-Safa and Al Marwah. I have prayed in the ancient city of Mina, and I have prayed on Mt. Arafat. "There were tens of thousands of pilgrims, from all over the world. They were of all colors, from blue-eyed blondes to black-skinned Africans. But we were all participating in the same ritual, displaying a spirit of unity and brotherhood that my experiences in America had led me to believe never could exist between the white and non-white. "America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem. Throughout my travels in the Muslim world, I have met, talked to, and even eaten with people who in America would have been considered white - but the white attitude was removed from their minds by the religion of Islam. I have never before seen sincere and true brotherhood practiced by all colors together, irrespective of their color. "You may be shocked by these words coming from me. But on this pilgrimage, what I have seen, and experienced, has forced me to rearrange much of my thought-patterns previously held, and to toss aside some of my previous conclusions. This was not too difficult for me. Despite my firm convictions, I have always been a man who tries to face facts, and to accept the reality of life as new experience and new knowledge unfolds it. I have always kept an open mind, which is necessary to the flexibility that must go hand in hand with every form of intelligent search for truth. "Each hour here in the Holy Land enables me to have greater spiritual insights into what is happening in America between black and white. The American Negro never can be blamed for his racial animosities - he is only reacting to four hundred years of the conscious racism of the American whites. But as racism leads America up the suicide path, I do believe, from the experiences that I have had with them, that the whites of the younger generation, in the colleges and universities, will see the handwriting on the walls and many of them will turn to the spiritual path of truth - the only way left to America to ward off the disaster that racism inevitably must lead to. "Never have I been so highly honored. Never have I been made to feel more humble and unworthy. Who would believe the blessings that have been heaped upon an American Negro? A few nights ago, a man who would be called in America a white man, a United Nations diplomat, an ambassador, a companion of kings, gave me his hotel suite, his bed. Never would I have even thought of dreaming that I would ever be a recipient of such honors - honors that in America would be bestowed upon a King - not a Negro. "All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of all the Worlds.
bahahahahah! TOLERANCE? what a joke! muslims don't know the meaning of the word! you know, i, myself, would very much like to go and see this great tolerance in Mecca. oops, but since i'm not a muslim, i'm not allowed in. so much for tolerance. the west lets muslims enter their countries and establish livelihoods just like back in the "old country". no problem. the people in the west are understanding and supportive of different cultures. eg woman in miami doesn't have to uncover her head for drivers licence ID photo. THAT is tolerance. woman decides to walk in downtown Tehran wearing a short skirt. i'd LOVE to see the reaction. tolerance? please!