geezus.. could you find a more presumptuous schmuk than this guy? i think you've got a career awaiting in you international relations analysis candles .. what others guess at, candle seems to know for sure... more presumptuous prattle. either that or you're trying to draw support by stirring up the emotions.. you know, you'd be an insurance salesman's dream.. and at least one so called 'american' (that's you candleloser)
The use of the word "probably" does not imply certainty... the use of the word "consensus" qualifies the word "probably"... An educated guess, based on contemporary history (Sept 11), perhaps?
Candle,what about the thousands of Iraqis each year that become history from Saddam's criminal regime? Do you really think the 24,000,000 Iraqis not in the ruling classes who have been living under a despot willl not welcome change? Your argument is that there are Muslim extremists such as Al-Queda that will seek reprisals should we invade Iraq, therefore we should not invade. Frankly, it is a weak argument as they will seek reprisals for any real or imagined wrong. And if the US completely withdrew from the Gulf, they would still seek attacks against us as we are an "Anti-Islamic Satanic People". They have discovered thier destructive potential, they are extortionists, and they won't go away even if we do. If you argued that it is not worth the cost in American blood on Iraqi soil and American taxpayer dollars, then I would be better persuaded to your point of view.
What is this discussion about: American blood? Then pray, what is the difference between your so-called "American" blood and say the blood of an Iraqi soldier, "Iraqi" blood? Just because the Iraqi soldier never paid taxes in the US? This is again this un-principled opportunistic utilitarian view of the world that is the root cause of groundswells which some people in the US all to happily dismiss as "anti-Americanism".
Obviously, the civilized world must condemn all forms of terrorism.. so September 11 must be condemned, as must the atrocious American terrorism that gave rise to September 11... similarly, the terrorism that the USA is about to commit in Iraq must be condemned, as must the revenge that will inevitably follow... such revenge is unacceptable... I have always felt that the civilized world should not be seen to condone revenge terror commited against the USA which has stooped to the level of depravity of American terrorism... the civilized world has an obligation to rise above the American terrorism and revenge terrorism that it is witnessing... Let's hope cool heads prevail...
You know, I used to think you were a pretty smart guy, but that moral equivalence crap you're trying to peddle shows you're pretty much an idiot. Anyone who equates anything America has done with the September 11 murders is an intellectual and moral coward.
Candletrader, One more thing before I leave this forum forever: Get the fuck out of my market, you anti-American asshole. You make me embarrassed to be a trader, you pathetic little man. So long
I think you missed my point during your rabid tirade. I was not making a contrast between the value of Americans and Iraqi lives. I said that America stands subject to attack from Muslim extremists regardless of intervention in Iraq, and that the concern for future American bloodshed should take into account lives of soldiers in a possible US-Iraq war, as well as expense to prosecute the war, in evaluating whether to go to war. In fact, what I wrote was so clear it does not require further explication, Fairplay, you idiot.
It's because of narrow minded "patriot at all costs" policy-makers who resemble you that the USA is the most hated country on this planet... By the way, the civilized world has no qualms with the American people; it simply has qualms with the fat-assed policy-makers who continue to cause pain and misery around the world... and who will, it seems, continue to commit mass-murder around the world in the pursuit of resource control... I am NOT anti-American by the way... I love America and love my fellow members of humanity... my issues are with American foreign policy... but people like you obviously fail to see the difference... this insane American policy of bomb and plunder is going to result in real pain for America... I don't want to see this pain (i.e I am NOT anti-American)... I simply want to prevent it (i.e. I am against American foreign policy)...
What America has done around the world is WORSE than September 11... so you are right, the two cannot be equated, one is a drop of water in the ocean compared to the other... Learn your history, if you wanna have a constructive debate... but of course, you will choose to remain blinkered, so such a debate will not be feasible... I used to be just like you... thankfully, my eyes were opened to the reality... and it is not a pretty reality...