Well said, rs7... I second that... what is needed is empathy, tolerance and the removal of ideological blinkers... On the global front, it is a real pity that the war mongers are not capable of fostering the above attributes...
It has been apparent for a while... the lack of tolerance, empathy and the sweet nothings uttered by various participants, masking an ulterior lust for war, has been most disheartening...
Read the Op-Ed page in the NY Times today, ex-CIA Iraq political analyst: War is for for control of water, Tigris and Euphrates.
The Iraqis you might observe, had a very modest, almost incidental role in instigating Desert Storm. THEY INVADED KUWAIT!! HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN?!?!? Fairplay like in "Fair Play For Cuba" (Oswald)
exactly! those freakin islamic fundie war mongers most certainly need to remove their blinkers and start tolerating other cultures! i couldn't have put it better.
Knowing something.....or maybe "feeling" would be a better word.... No Max, I am not just "finding this out". I just decided that this was an appropriate point to express the sentiment. Obviously, you of all people know that I am quite anti-war. But also, as I am certain you must know, assuming you have read even some of my posts on this thread, that I am NOT anti this particular war if it proves to be necessary (which, BTW, I am not totally convinced of at this point). Like you, and like Candle, who seem to be coming from opposite sides on this issue, I too am an American first. And I feel whatever actions are essential to defend our freedoms....our very way of life, are justifiable. I am NOT a "pacifist" even though I was strongly opposed to the Vietnam war. I was opposed to that conflict because I saw no threat to America by the North Vietnamese, and I was not a believer in the "Domino Theory". I was NOT against the Gulf War, which, I suppose if I was a party line kind of guy, I should have been. But, as I have said so many times, I am not a "party line" adherent. I go in the polling booth and vote for Democrats and Republicans based on the issues. Not on their party affiliations. (Although, when in doubt, I will admit to being more partial to Dems....for which I will surely be vilified here for saying this by someone). I am vehemently against all that Saddam represents. I think he must be deposed one way or the other. If we can accomplish this without warring, all the better. On this, even Dubya himself and I agree. So it gets me a bit wound up that this thread has become NOT about the "repercussions of a US attack on Iraq", which was the original subject, but a bitter feud between people who think labels work on people. I have seen the word "liberal" used in context of being "soft" or "anti-American". I have seen "conservative" being distorted into connotating that this describes "war mongers". Neither of these absurd generalities, to me, make any sense. Or any point. Then there are, obviously, the true "anti-americans" like Fairplay and his groupies. Who are obviously going to be against any American action or policy, because it is what makes them feel somehow "superior"? (don't know what word to use...out of my realm of understanding). All I know is that Max is a patriotic American. And Candle is a patriotic American. And I like to think I am too. But we have our differences of opinions. And that is allowed. It is part of what being an American is. The freedom of dissent. Who are we to truly know what level of threat Saddam poses? Max, you yourself have said Schwartzkoph was "out of the loop" (intelligence). And that is an accurate statement. But if he is, then we are so far out of the loop as to be virtually in total darkness. And so, we have to trust our government. We are a repubic. Not a democracy. We put these guys in charge to make our decisions for us. And now they have to earn their pay. So it is fine to sit here and say..."let's bomb Iraq". And it is fine to sit here and say "there must be a better and safer way". And it is even fine to say "it's about the oil (bullshit though that may be). It is anyone's right to say whatever they feel like. But he bottom line is this: There will NOT be a referendum to determine what, if any, military action will or will not occur. This does NOT mean that we can't, or shouldn't argue about this. It just means our arguments mean less than zero. Because it's out of our hands. The point of the "no empathy" post I wrote was simply that what is going on here is a reflection of what goes on in the world. And there will NEVER be a Utopian ideal shared among all the world's leaders. There will always be greed and a hunger for power and ideological and religious and cultural differences. At least in our lifetimes. So why argue amongst ourselves? (Us Americans). Debate is good. Namecalling is counterproductive. There are enough non Americans who will hate us for whatever reasons they have. They are our real concern. We are not our own enemies. Al Quada is. Taliban is. Oil shieks are. All terrorist are not only ours, but the world's enemies. I am not proposing we sit in a circle and sing cumbaya (or however it's spelled). I just think it is ridiculous to bang heads because we think Republicans are jerks. Or Democrats are jerks. This stuff is just absurd. Go sit in the gallery of the House of Representatives. The members on both sides of the aisle generally respect those on the opposite side. They are all Americans serving their country. A friend of mine is a Rep. (Here Max...no secret: Robert Wexler). He tells me some of the people he most respects are his political opponents. But off the floor, he considers them friends. They don't call each other names because of their party affiliations. Why do we? And here we are, not serving our country, and we hold animosity because we do or don't like GWB? Or whoever? So petty. And so counterproductive. And such great fuel for those looking for reenforcement for their true Anti-American beliefs.. Why give them ammo? Fuck 'em all. We all know that virtually ANY American enjoys a better standard of living than even all but the very most privileged of those Third World countries that so officially and blatantly resent us. Like that weasel from Indonesia who's name I have forgotten but posts his nonsense nonstop. Life in the South Bronx is probably better on the whole than life is for the majority of the inhabitants of entire countries like Afghanistan. Or Iraq. Or North Korea. Or any place where political power grows from the barrels of guns. Screw them all. We get to vote. They get to grovel for food. We send foreign aid. They get to see their corrupt leaders steal it. We know what the world is really like. And it's good to be an American (Randy Newman). Peace, rs7